Review and Expansion

Driving home: For in congregationalism, the view is that Christ rules by his word in terms of exercising a direct constraint, over the mind and conscience of every individual believer, and it is by the corporate suffrage, or vote, of …

Martin quotes John Quincy Adams' book to illustrate the classic congregationalist view of equality among brethren and the church's autonomy, demonstrating that his earlier description was not a caricature.

Every person has equal input in the government of the church. The rich and the poor, the minister, deacons, and people are all brethren. The pastor is no more, the poorest member is no less than one of the brethren. Each church in its collective capacity, you see, each individual acting as a body, transacts its own business, exercises its own discipline, receives and excludes its own members, subject only to the authority of Christ and governed only by his word.

6:02 - 6:40 Read in full sermon

Driving home: For in congregationalism, the view is that Christ rules by his word in terms of exercising a direct constraint, over the mind and conscience of every individual believer, and it is by the corporate suffrage, or vote, of …

Martin quotes a book given to Southern Baptist seminary graduates to further illustrate the congregationalist 'ecclesiastical axiom' of equal privileges and autonomy for all believers under Christ.

On all questions, every member of the church has an equal right to speak and to work. There is no authority superior to the church to reverse its decisions or to call it to account. Now that is classic congregationalism. In a book that was distributed to Pastor Bob Martin along with all of the other men who graduated with him from the largest Southern Baptist seminary in the world, this book was given to the graduates to be, as it were, their lifetime companion in matters of passage.

6:40 - 7:19 Read in full sermon

The point: Have distinct scriptural views on church government, understanding the roles of office bearers and private members.

Martin quotes John Brown's summary of elder rule, describing the church as a monarchy administered by inferior magistrates (elders) who execute the King's laws, contrasting it with pure democracy.

A Christian church is a very free society, but they mistake the matter who consider it as a democracy. So he is saying that John Quincy Adams and Herschel Hobbs and Mullins are mistaken when they say the church is a pure democracy. It is a monarchy administered by inferior magistrates, elders, pastors, overseers, bishops, administered by inferior magistrates chosen by their fellow subjects who are to execute the king's laws being guided only by his word and neither by their own judgment or caprice nor by the opinions or the will of those whom they govern.

12:06 - 12:51 Read in full sermon

The point: Elders must not extend their rule into areas of Christian liberty and bind consciences where God has not bound them by His word.

Martin recounts a story of a church member graciously questioning the biblical warrant for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day, illustrating how elders should respond to such inquiries without resentment.

Then thirdly, this is just review now, when they resent any gracious questioning of their interpretation of scripture or a policy which is presently in force. When elders resent any gracious questioning of their interpretation of scripture, or a policy in force. For example, I remember a number of years ago, one of our godly, faithful, long-term charter members who is still with us today, asked me when I was teaching on the Lord's Day, and came to me and said, Pastor, I see the force of what you've said, but I have real problems with seeing clearly in scripture the biblical warrant of the chan...

17:37 - 18:22 Read in full sermon

The point: Elders must not extend their rule into areas of Christian liberty and bind consciences where God has not bound them by His word.

Martin shares how members have questioned the policy of inviting only church members to the Lord's Table, demonstrating another instance where elders should provide biblical rationale rather than resent the questioning.

Well, you see, that has happened literally hundreds of times over the years. With regard to church policy, dozens of times I have been asked, Pastor, what lies behind the policy with regard to the Lord's table of inviting only church members? I've come from a background where just anybody could come who believed they were saved and loved the Lord and wanted to remember Him. What is the biblical rationale?

19:02 - 19:26 Read in full sermon

The point: If you perpetually don't take counsel from wise, godly, experienced people, you are acting foolishly.

Martin describes giving counsel to a church member about a domestic situation, carefully distinguishing his advice from a command and assuring the member that not taking the counsel would not be rebellion.

However, it is mere counsel and advice, godly counsel, godly advice, but it is counsel. And if you choose not to take it, don't go away with a monkey on your back that I've sinned because I didn't take the apostle's counsel. Now, you see, when elders don't make that distinction, that when they are called upon to give advice and counsel, and often they are. For example, just yesterday, one of the sheep in this flock sought my counsel.

22:07 - 22:34 Read in full sermon

The point: Elders must not demand a degree of loyalty which cancels the loyalties and obligations of other God-ordained relationships.

Martin provides a historical example from the 'lunatic fringe of the Reformation' where excommunication led to demands for spouses to cease sexual relations, illustrating elders demanding loyalty that cancels other God-ordained relationships.

When they demand a degree of loyalty which cancels the loyalties and obligations of other God-ordained relationships. When they demand a degree of loyalty which cancels the loyalties and obligations of other God-ordained relationships. For example, there was a movement and I believe there are still remnants of it present today but in what would be called some of the lunatic fringe of the Reformation that when a person was excommunicated now we've got a woman here and a man here and the teaching was that if the man had been guilty

24:41 - 25:25 Read in full sermon

The point: Elders must not demand a degree of loyalty which cancels the loyalties and obligations of other God-ordained relationships.

Martin uses the example of cults demanding total control, setting children against parents, and undermining natural affections, to illustrate the abuse of demanding loyalty that cancels other God-ordained relationships.

Wives be subject to your husbands even if any obey not the word. And likewise one of the marks of cults is that they have total control so that a person has no input from any other God-ordained relationship whether husband, wife, parent, child or even state. That's the mark. Children are set against the parents in such a way that the reasonable demands of parents are looked upon as the voice of the devil.

26:31 - 27:01 Read in full sermon

The point: If you disagree with an elder's judgment, comply from the heart and keep your lips sealed about it to others, to avoid creating disruption.

Martin uses the analogy of a good marriage where loyalty and submission are tested by disagreement in judgment, illustrating how a wife's gracious submission despite disagreement differs from disloyalty that undermines her husband's authority.

That's totally out of keeping with the spirit of what it means to keep the unity of the spirit and to obey them that have the rule over you. You see in a good marriage loyalty and submission are most severely tested when there is disagreement of judgment. In a good marriage loyalty and submission are most severely tested when there is a disagreement in judgment. A good marriage is one in which a husband locks into his wife's thinking and perspective in the decision making process because God gave her to be a helper to him and he gave her with a mind and with intelligence

30:38 - 31:22 Read in full sermon

The point: If you see marks of tyrannical rule in your elders, approach them individually with witnesses; otherwise, do not accept allegations of tyranny.

Martin uses the analogy of a spoiled brat who regards any parental rule as tyrannical, to explain why elders who exercise gracious rule are often accused of being tyrants or leading a 'cult'.

of a tyrannical rule remember my illustration last week a spoiled brat who has never taken an order from his parent in all of his days regards any parent who exercises gracious rule over his children as a tyrant and therefore any church in which elders are ruling will always be the brunt of the accusation there's a bunch of tyrants it's a cult oh yeah we've gotten that accusation we're a cult here did you know that came as recently as just a couple of weeks ago when one of our members had blurted in his ear oh you still belong to that cult and the cult mentality being that this church is ruled...

35:51 - 36:34 Read in full sermon

The point: Do not demand full disclosure of the entire decision-making process from elders; this reflects congregational anarchy.

Martin quotes John Owen to support the idea that congregational voting is declarative of consent and obedience, not determinative and authoritative, when elders are exercising rule, countering congregational anarchy.

those images totally resist this concept of congregational anarchy and John Owen saw this thing as the perceptive Christian and pastor that he was and he wrote in this way in volume 16 page 131 and I want to quote this section therefore where anything is acted and disposed in the church by voting or the plurality of voices the vote of the fraternity that is the congregation is not determining and authoritativeing but only declarative of consent and obedience it is so in all acts of rule where the

39:32 - 40:17 Read in full sermon

The point: Do not manifest a skepticism that reads the worst motives into information withheld by elders; it is sinful.

Martin uses the 'Nixon cover-up' as an analogy to illustrate how congregational skepticism can misinterpret elders withholding information as sinister, rather than prudent.

because of the principle of Proverbs 12 and verse 23 a prudent man conceals knowledge often it is prudence that is practical sanctified wisdom gracious wisdom to conceal knowledge but the heart of fools proclaims foolishness now you see you can put one of two constructions on information withheld you can say aha another Nixon cover-up or you can say thank God our elders are concerned enough for us to protect us from things that would not be

42:31 - 43:16 Read in full sermon

The point: Do not manifest a skepticism that reads the worst motives into information withheld by elders; it is sinful.

Martin quotes John Owen on the spiritual wisdom and understanding required of church officers to apply Christ's law, emphasizing that elders reflect Christ's character and are not involved in cover-ups.

who speaks so wisely the skill then of the offices of the church for the government is of a spiritual wisdom and understanding in the law of Christ for that end with an ability to make application of it that is of the law of Christ in all requisite instances under the edification of the whole church and all its members through a ministerial exercise of the authority of Christ and a due representation of his holiness love care compassion and tenderness toward his church put into concurrent Americanese it's this one of the gifts God gives to competent qualified elders is the gift of

44:45 - 45:30 Read in full sermon

The point: Do not make public interrogations that assume incompetence of your elders; assume credibility and competence.

Martin uses the analogy of asking a woman if she knows how to read a measuring cup while baking, or a man if he knows how to read a ruler while building bookcases, to illustrate how public questions can demean elders by assuming incompetence.

we must hurry on when they make making interrogations which assume incompetence and on that note I close last week very quickly making interrogations which assume incompetence when matters are brought before you for your information and corporate consent please assume some credibility and competence and don't demean your leaders publicly suppose I walked into the home of one of you families on Monday evening just popped in for a little visit unofficially informally and as the lady of the house you were about to make a cake and you had all your flour and your other spices out and you're ready t...

46:59 - 47:44 Read in full sermon

The point: Elders must recognize legitimate claims of other God-ordained relationships (e.g., husband-wife) when giving counsel, balancing ecclesiastical and domestic obligations.

Martin references Jim Jones and other cults where total loyalty is demanded, including control over finances and family relationships, as extreme examples of elders demanding loyalty that cancels other God-ordained relationships.

yes well certainly many of the cults do this you remember Jim Jones had such total loyalty to himself that people gave up all discretion in the matter of the use of their money I believe that was one of the terms of joining his outfit was you turned over all of your assets and there are cults in existence like that today where minor children are taken in and told resist every effort of your parents and of the law in any

52:04 - 52:49 Read in full sermon

The point: Elders must recognize legitimate claims of other God-ordained relationships (e.g., husband-wife) when giving counsel, balancing ecclesiastical and domestic obligations.

Martin gives an example of elders potentially abusing authority by demanding a wife attend all meetings even if it conflicts with her unconverted husband's only quality time, illustrating the need to balance ecclesiastical and domestic obligations.

way to get you out of this commune or out of this particular framework where there is total mind control those are some of the clear manifestations of this however there can be lesser manifestations of that if elders say for example a situation where there is a divided household where you have an unconverted husband and they say to someone look when you became a member you vowed to be faithful to all the stated meetings the husband may work funny shifts so that the only time he can have any quality with his wife is on a Wednesday and they will say look I don't care what your husband says you b...

52:49 - 53:32 Read in full sermon

The point: Elders must recognize legitimate claims of other God-ordained relationships (e.g., husband-wife) when giving counsel, balancing ecclesiastical and domestic obligations.

Martin critiques Bill Gothard's teaching on a woman's loyalty to her husband, where submission to a husband's command not to attend church meetings is advocated, arguing this is an extreme position that neglects God's higher claims.

he had to give counsel at times women who said I long to be out to all the meetings he said yes but you have obligations other than ecclesiastical you have domestic obligations as well now the reverse of that you see the abuse of the other end of that is the teaching given for example in Bill Gothard's concepts of the loyalty of a woman to her husband in which if I understand correctly what I've read I can only say I haven't attended the seminars but what I've read and talked to people who have had problems with this so I'm going to be I don't believe I'm bearing false witness that he would sa...

53:34 - 54:19 Read in full sermon