Review and Expansion

Introduction and Review of Previous Study

0:02 This Adult Sunday School class was held on August 10, 1986, at the Trinity Baptist Church in Montville, New Jersey. Since Mr. Dixon has already welcomed the visitors, I'll not need to repeat that welcome. I will simply add my amen to it. It is a delight to have you with us this morning.

0:27 Now, for the sake of our visitors, while others are being seated, let me just say a word about where we are and where we have been in our adult class. We have just completed a 12-week study in our church constitution, and as an appendix, I led a study last week in which I attempted to give a clear definition to the issue of church life within a framework of rule by elder as contrasted with church life in the church. In a framework of strict congregationalism, or rule by the congregation. And in seeking the counsel from some of my fellow elders,

1:12 it seemed wise to us that I should attempt to complete the study. Time ran out, and I went ten minutes beyond the normal cut-off time last week. And then also, hopefully, to give some opportunity for questions before we move on, God willing, next week to resume our studies in the book of Hebrews. And what I propose to do this morning is to review what we covered last week, and as I move through the review, adding at certain points materials that I have called in my further studies this week, and then hopefully to give an additional category in the study that we did not touch upon last week,

1:56 and then, as I mentioned, hopefully have at least a few minutes left at the end for the next study. For questions and answers. In introducing the subject last week, I told you that I felt it was necessary to take up this subject for three reasons. Number one, that there is some evident confusion on the matter, some imprecision of understanding in our own congregation.

2:21 Secondly, the climate of our day, in which there is a prevailing superstition concerning leaders who have any kind of authority, in which there is a spirit of individualism that is very resistant to the concept of submission to authority. And then, thirdly, the very real danger in such a climate of overreaction, in which those who have authority can, without realizing it, seeking to make sure that the prevailing climate does not reign, can go beyond the midpoint of biblical balance, in the exercise of that authority.

Essential Difference: Congregationalism vs. Elder Rule

3:04 And none of us in a place of leadership would say that we are exempt from that temptation. We are very conscious of it, and seek to be watchful and prayerful lest we fall into it. Very well, then, having dealt with the reasons for addressing the subject, the first thing I attempted to do was to set before you the essential difference between congregationalism and rule by elder. And I began by demonstrating that among those who believe in the word of God, there are two points of fundamental agreement.

3:44 Number one, that Christ and Christ alone has ultimate authority in his church. Both congregationalists and those who believe in rule by elder believe that truth. Secondly, they are agreed that the mind and will of Christ for his church, is embodied completely in the scriptures. That the rule of Christ is exerted in the church of Christ in terms of the word of Christ.

4:16 But it's at this point that there is a great divide. For in congregationalism, the view is that Christ rules by his word in terms of exercising a direct constraint, over the mind and conscience of every individual believer, and it is by the corporate suffrage, or vote, of the entire brotherhood, that the will of Christ from the word of Christ is made known. Now, I've come up with some additional materials demonstrating that this is not an overstatement or a caricature, and I want to read from those materials to you.

5:01 In a book called, Baptists, it says, Baptists, Thorough Reformers, by John Quincy Adams. A book which has some good things, but I feel it has more error and extreme statements than balanced statements. On the whole subject of church government, this is what Mr. Adams says on page 121.

5:23 I proceed to show in the second place that Baptists seek to establish such equality, that is equality among brethren. The principles of the church, the principles of the church, the principles of the church, the principle of church government. Alright. We are talking now about how the church is governed.

5:38 The principle of church government in the Baptist denomination are expressed in the text, One is your master, even Christ, One is your master, even Christ, and you are all brethren. There is no opportunity for the assumption of authority by a few, if it were desired. All meet on the broad, even platform of equality. The principle of church government and the Baptist denomination are expressed in the text.

6:02 Every person has equal input in the government of the church. The rich and the poor, the minister, deacons, and people are all brethren. The pastor is no more, the poorest member is no less than one of the brethren. Each church in its collective capacity, you see, each individual acting as a body, transacts its own business, exercises its own discipline, receives and excludes its own members, subject only to the authority of Christ and governed only by his word.

6:40 On all questions, every member of the church has an equal right to speak and to work. There is no authority superior to the church to reverse its decisions or to call it to account. Now that is classic congregationalism. In a book that was distributed to Pastor Bob Martin along with all of the other men who graduated with him from the largest Southern Baptist seminary in the world, this book was given to the graduates to be, as it were, their lifetime companion in matters of passage.

7:19 In the chapter on the ecclesiastical or the church government axiom, this is what we read, and I quote, Nevertheless, the substance of this axiom is that all Christians have a right to equal privileges in the church. No one believer should enjoy special privilege or sit in authority. Over a fellow believer, for only Jesus Christ is Lord. The ecclesiastical axiom flows naturally from the religious axiom.

8:01 Since people have an equal right of access to God, they also are entitled to equal privileges in the church. Equality before God makes men equal in their ecclesiastical standing. Christ is Lord. The believer believes.

8:20 Belongs to an absolute monarchy. You see, here's agreement. Christ is the only ultimate monarch, king, and ruler. But the monarch is in heaven and relates himself to his subjects through his revealed word and his spirit.

8:36 The subject has fellowship directly with the monarch. You see, no body of elders in between. Each subject has direct relationship to the monarch in the government of the church. We're not talking about in the life of the individual.

8:50 This is in the chapter on the ecclesiastical axiom. Not the individual believer's right of priesthood and access to God. But we're talking about the government of the church. He delegates his authority to none, that is Christ.

9:08 But the first and finest expression of Christ's lordship over the individual believer is in the gift of autonomy. That is of every individual being utterly autonomous under Christ. Within the fellowship of the church. Now we could go on quoting other statements from this.

9:27 It is the logical conclusion, therefore, that pure democracy in church polity is the only institutional expression, the only expression in the form of church organization of the religious axiom, namely the soul's right to dealings with God, the equality of believers in spiritual privilege in the church. So, dear people, you must understand that in stating it this way, I was not painting a caricature, not overstating it for the sake of argument. I'm bearing witness to the truth of classic congregationalism as a form of church government.

10:09 However, it is our assertion that the word of God teaches that though Christ alone has ultimate authority and all of his mind concerning the church is contained in the scriptures, those very scriptures teach us that it is the will of Christ and the activity of Christ to set within the church those who are called the gifts of Christ who are to rule, who are to govern, who are to shepherd, who are to guide the flock of God's people. Now that rule and that guidance must always be with reference to the church. Now that rule and that guidance must always be with reference to the church. Now that rule and that guidance must always be with reference to the church.

10:50 Now that rule and that guidance must always be with reference to the word of God. They have no mandate to rule according to mere human traditions, according to personal prejudices, according to sinful patterns of attitudes, etc. But they are nonetheless to rule and if that is not so, then all of the injunctions obey them that have the rule over you, know them that are over you in the Lord, remember them that have the rule over you, shepherd the flock of God, exercising the oversight. If a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?

11:29 All of those texts must be bled of their obvious, straightforward import and significance if this is not indeed the framework of government established by Jesus Christ as revealed in his holy word. And therefore, we can do no better and I do this simply or basically for the sake of our visitors than to read what I believe is the finest statement. It takes about a minute to read it. Summarizing the classic position of rule by elder from the writing of John Brown.

12:06 A Christian church is a very free society, but they mistake the matter who consider it as a democracy. So he is saying that John Quincy Adams and Herschel Hobbs and Mullins are mistaken when they say the church is a pure democracy. It is a monarchy administered by inferior magistrates, elders, pastors, overseers, bishops, administered by inferior magistrates chosen by their fellow subjects who are to execute the king's laws being guided only by his word and neither by their own judgment or caprice nor by the opinions or the will of those whom they govern.

12:51 They do not govern by consensus. Put their ear to the ground and see what the people desire and govern according to the consensus of congregational will. Christ is the Lord and he administers his government by officers appointed according to his ordinance and regulated by his laws. It is of great importance both to the office bearers and private members of a Christian church to have distinct scriptural views on this subject.

Abuses of Elder Authority: Arrogance and Binding Consciences

13:20 Now, having reviewed and amplified that first heading, the essential difference between classic congregationalism and classic rule by elder, we then moved on to consider as our second heading the abuses of rule by elder. Since there is truly a God-given authority to rule, to govern, to guide, to shepherd, to take care, and I'm only quoting scriptural concepts and verbs and words, obviously such authority to rule, to govern, to shepherd, to guide in the hands of men with remaining sin is liable to abuse.

14:04 And therefore the scriptures set before us both examples of that abuse and warnings with reference to that abuse. And I want to review the three abuses that I mentioned last week and then add three more to them. First of all, there is the abuse found when elders rule in an arrogant, proud, overbearing spirit and demeanor. And that's exactly what Peter is addressing when he says in 1 Peter chapter 5, commanding elders to rule, to take the oversight, for that's the main thrust of his exhortation.

14:44 You'll notice that the main thrust of Peter's exhortation in 1 Peter 5 is not a warning of the abuse, of the authority, but the proper exercise of that authority. 1 Peter 5, 1 The elders therefore among you I exhort. And what is his exhortation? Verse 2 Tend or shepherd the flock of God.

15:10 Do with respect to God's people what a shepherd does with respect to his master's sheep. Exercise all of the loving, assertive, gracious, good, will and government that will secure the best interest of the sheep. It is an exhortation for leaders to lead. Exercise this oversight.

15:36 Then he says it is not to be done of constraint, but willingly, not for filthy lucre. Now here's another negative, verse 3. Neither as lording it over the charge allotted to you. Now isn't that interesting?

15:51 The congregation is called, the charge allotted to the elders. Now to say there is total equality, how in the name of common sense could anyone holding that position expound 1 Peter 5? I don't understand, frankly. Any more than I could understand how anyone who denies the essential deity of Christ could honestly expound John 1, 1 to 3.

16:17 The charge is allotted to the people of God, but in exercising that oversight they are not to do so in an arrogant, proud, overbearing spirit and demeanor, not as lording it over God's, not lording it over the charge allotted to you, but making yourselves examples to the flock. The second abuse of the authority of elders is found when they extend their rule into areas of Christian liberty and bind consciences where God has not bound them by his word. We don't know if the elders in the church of Galatia

17:00 had been so infected with the Galatian heresy that they were actually binding the members to circumcision and the ceremonial law, but this we do know. Paul says to the church, stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made you free. And Christ has freed us from the tyranny of the rules of men when it comes to our consciences before the Lord. And elders abuse their authority when they bind the consciences of the people of God where God does not bind their consciences in his word.

17:37 Then thirdly, this is just review now, when they resent any gracious questioning of their interpretation of scripture or a policy which is presently in force. When elders resent any gracious questioning of their interpretation of scripture, or a policy in force. For example, I remember a number of years ago, one of our godly, faithful, long-term charter members who is still with us today, asked me when I was teaching on the Lord's Day, and came to me and said, Pastor, I see the force of what you've said, but I have real problems with seeing clearly in scripture the biblical warrant of the change of the day

18:22 from the seventh to the first. Can you demonstrate to me from the word of God what the basis of that change is? Now that person is here, and I would like that person to stand and say, if they were met with an answer, who in the world are you to question me?

18:42 No, they were not met with that. They said, well, maybe I've got some homework to do to be able to answer that question better than I can right now. Can you be patient while I do my homework? And I did some homework, and I even passed on a book that I found helpful to that individual, and that individual's mind was set at rest on that issue.

19:02 Well, you see, that has happened literally hundreds of times over the years. With regard to church policy, dozens of times I have been asked, Pastor, what lies behind the policy with regard to the Lord's table of inviting only church members? I've come from a background where just anybody could come who believed they were saved and loved the Lord and wanted to remember Him. What is the biblical rationale?

19:26 Some of you sitting here have asked that question. If you have, will you raise your hand? All right, one, two, anyway. I've been asked more than twice.

19:33 Now, maybe some of you are no longer those who asked it are no longer here. But no one was ever met with, is our policy, you don't like it? Go somewhere else. No, you were met with, well, this is the rationale, and there's been an attempt to give you the biblical basis.

Abuses of Elder Authority: Noncompliance with Counsel and Loyalty Demands

19:51 And if elders ever resent a gracious questioning of their interpretation of Scripture, or a policy implemented, somewhere along the line, they are moving out of the orbit of the spirit that ought to mark them in their rule. Now then, let me give you three additional evidences of what we would call an eldership rule which is marked by tyranny and spiritual despotism. Number four, when they regard noncompliance with counsel and advice as rebellion against biblical order and rule. When they regard noncompliance

20:34 with counsel and advice as rebellion against biblical order. Now, the Apostle Paul was very conscious, even in writing an inspired epistle, of the difference between inspired precepts and inspired counsel and advice. In 1 Corinthians chapter 7, we have the classic example of that. He is giving, he is giving his advice and counsel to unmarried people in a given set of circumstances.

21:05 And he says, this is my counsel to you. Chapter 7, verse 25. Now, concerning virgins, 1 Corinthians 7, verse 25, I have no commandment of the Lord. I do not speak now by way of giving a direct revelation of divine will.

21:25 But I give my judgment as one who has obtained mercy of the Lord to be trustworthy. I think, therefore, that this is good by reason of the distress that is among us, namely, that it is good for a man to be as he is. Are you bound unto a wife? Do not seek to be loosed.

21:42 Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But, should you marry, you have not sinned. He said, here's my counsel.

21:53 But if you don't take my counsel, you're not a rebel. Isn't that what he's saying? Here's my counsel. If it's worth anything to you, as a mature man who's backing off, dispassionately viewing the situation, here's my counsel.

22:07 However, it is mere counsel and advice, godly counsel, godly advice, but it is counsel. And if you choose not to take it, don't go away with a monkey on your back that I've sinned because I didn't take the apostle's counsel. Now, you see, when elders don't make that distinction, that when they are called upon to give advice and counsel, and often they are. For example, just yesterday, one of the sheep in this flock sought my counsel.

22:34 And it had to do about a domestic situation. And I made it very plain. I said, I've been thinking about this question since it was raised with me several weeks ago. Here is my reflection and counsel.

22:47 And I had three points to my counsel, of course. What else? But now, having given my counsel, when I was done, I was careful to say, but now, brother, as you weigh this, and you make a judgment that puts you on the other side of the issue, I want you to know I'm not going to look upon you as being bullheaded. I'm not going to look upon you as sinning.

23:11 I want you to know I am merely giving counsel in terms of the situation as I see it. And this brother said, well, you've given me some things to think about that I had not thought about. In coming to a tentative decision, I will prayerfully weigh your counsel. You see?

23:27 See the difference between those two things? And if elders can't make that distinction and feel that when their counsel is not heeded, this is an indication of rebellion and anarchy, they are bordering on a rule of tyranny and a rule of despotism. Now, let me balance it by saying, if month after month and year after year you seek counsel from wise, godly, experienced people who base their counsel on sound judgment, on biblical principles, and you never take it, the Bible's got something to say to you. Just read the book of Proverbs.

23:59 He that is wise hearkens unto counsel. And God has a four-letter word for the person who perpetually doesn't take counsel. God calls him a fool.

24:13 A fool.

24:16 So you see, walk on that razor's edge. But the great responsibility of elders is to be sure that they make that distinction between counsel and a clear exposition of a clear precept or message. A mandate from God. A fifth indication of tyranny and ecclesiastical despotism among elders is this.

24:41 When they demand a degree of loyalty which cancels the loyalties and obligations of other God-ordained relationships. When they demand a degree of loyalty which cancels the loyalties and obligations of other God-ordained relationships. For example, there was a movement and I believe there are still remnants of it present today but in what would be called some of the lunatic fringe of the Reformation that when a person was excommunicated now we've got a woman here and a man here and the teaching was that if the man had been guilty

25:25 of a sin worthy of excommunication and he was cast out of the church what does the Bible say? That with regard to an excommunicated person you're to have no social fellowship with them you're not to eat with them. They said alright if the Bible says you're not to eat with them how much less are you to sleep with them have sexual intercourse with them therefore they would demand that the woman who was still a church member would cease all sexual relations with her husband would cease sharing her bed and her table with him. You say pastor you've got to be kidding.

25:54 No, I am not kidding. And any responsible historian who has written on what has been called the lunatic fringe of the Reformation some of the excesses of the wilder Anabaptist movements they took this position what were they doing? They were exercising a tyrannical rule in which they made ecclesiastical demands which cancelled the demands of other God-ordained relationships. God says to every woman whether her husband is excommunicated or not let the wife render to the husband his due.

26:31 Wives be subject to your husbands even if any obey not the word. And likewise one of the marks of cults is that they have total control so that a person has no input from any other God-ordained relationship whether husband, wife, parent, child or even state. That's the mark. Children are set against the parents in such a way that the reasonable demands of parents are looked upon as the voice of the devil.

27:02 The reasonable expectations of naturalization the natural affection that the Bible speaks about are looked upon as idolatry. Well, whenever elders begin to exercise a kind of pressure for loyalty that cancels the loyalties and obligations of other God-ordained relationships we need to be very, very careful. But then there is a sixth manifestation of the abuse of rule by elder and it's this. When they regard disagreements in judgment as disloyalty and rebellion.

Abuses of Elder Authority: Disagreement as Disloyalty

27:39 When they regard disagreements in judgments as disloyalty and rebellion. You see, there is a distinction between a biblical precept and a human judgment based upon one's understanding of biblical precepts. If a man's cohabiting having sexual intercourse with a woman other than his wife you need not exercise discretion and wisdom to know that he's sinning and know what you've got to tell him to do. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

28:13 Plain and simple you don't need to have a church court that goes on for 23 days to sort out the issue. The word of God is spoken to the issue. Thou shalt not commit adultery. And if a man says what shall I do?

28:27 You say as John did it is not lawful for you to have her put her away cease the relationship move into the direction of righteousness. However, there are other matters in the administration of rule and government in the church where you do not have such clear-cut biblical precepts shedding light upon the path of duty. And the elders must pray for wisdom as they do. Then they must exercise discretion in seeking to take a course of action that in their judgment reflects the most balanced coming together of all of the strands of biblical principles.

29:12 Now when they do you may not agree that the judgment has been proper even though from the heart you submit to it.

29:27 Now such disagreement even expressed in a gracious manner to an elder or to the entire eldership and that's the only place it should be expressed.

29:40 What good does it do to express it to ten other church members? You know I don't agree with what the elders did.

29:46 What good does that do? I ask you what good comes from expressing that disagreement? Is your expressing it to ten other members going to change their judgment? No, that will just make them suspicious that maybe from the heart you have not submitted because you disagree.

30:03 But if you come in a gracious manner and say brethren with all my heart I've embraced the judgment I'm submitting to the directive but in my own conscience I cannot agree. I cannot agree with it. Here's why. Alright, let's hear out the brother.

30:17 As we hear him out it may be that he will shed some light upon it that will cause the eldership to change its mind and to reverse its decision. That's happened more than once. But if a person comes and says I don't agree I don't accept your judgment and not accepting your judgment I refuse to submit to it I'm going to agitate the issue. No, no.

30:38 That's totally out of keeping with the spirit of what it means to keep the unity of the spirit and to obey them that have the rule over you. You see in a good marriage loyalty and submission are most severely tested when there is disagreement of judgment. In a good marriage loyalty and submission are most severely tested when there is a disagreement in judgment. A good marriage is one in which a husband locks into his wife's thinking and perspective in the decision making process because God gave her to be a helper to him and he gave her with a mind and with intelligence

31:22 and as he's wrestled the thing through he says now dear this is the way I see it this is the judgment I believe we must make we can only take a six day vacation and here are my reasons. She hears him out and she says honey I believe you're all wet I believe you're wrong on that I don't agree with your judgment but since God's called you to call the shots I'm going to submit. Now suppose then every chance she gets she says to the kids hey you know why we're only having six days vacation it's a lie.

31:51 Tell us. We laugh but there are some who do that. You know why we aren't working for ten days he wouldn't listen to me. Is that loyalty to her husband?

32:02 No. That's gross disloyalty. She is bringing him down in the estimation of his children.

32:10 Alright you see the parallel? The elders wrestle through an issue and as best they know before God with their present light they're going to they say this is a judgment we are making we now call upon you to submit. You have every right to come to an elder to the entire eldership and say brethren I do not agree with that judgment however I assure you I am going to comply from the heart and my lips are sealed in speaking about it to others. But if a person comes from such a meeting with his elders and then every chance he or she gets says do you know why I don't agree with that here are my reasons what is that doing?

32:48 That is agitating to create a spirit of disruption in the congregation of God's people. That is not submission. Submission is most severely tested when there is disagreement in judgment and overseers must not demand that everyone's judgment comply but from the word of God they can demand that wills be submissive to judgments made unless those judgments are patently clearly contrary to the express precepts of the word of God. If the elders stand and say well there is among us a man cohabiting with another woman but we have made a judgment that in his case he has got such powerful sexual drives

33:33 one woman can't meet his needs we believe he should have a wife and a concubine.

33:39 Now for us to demand submission to that is to demand submission where the word of God speaks clearly. That is not a judgment that is anarchy against the rule of Christ perpetrated by the leaders and at that point you have every right I would hope en masse to resist that directive but we are talking about matters of administrative judgment matters where leaders are responsible to assess all of the facts as best they can ascertain them and to make a judgment and God's word to church members is clear obey them that have the rule over you even though there is disagreement in judgment and there is a lovely wholesome climate in a marriage

34:23 where a husband is not threatened when his wife looks up at him and smiles and says honey I don't agree with you but I am going to obey you anyway and if she says I don't agree with you and I am going to make you fry for it now you are setting up a carnal power struggle you are going to make him suspicious that husband will now be suspicious of anything that looks like insubordination first cousin twice removed who has created the climate the woman has by her attitude now that is what happens in churches you want to make a group of elders paranoid then you be guilty of sniping in the congregation when there is a legitimate disagreement in judgment

35:06 you want to have a climate in which there is wonderful mutual trust then disagree in judgment and if you speak it to anyone speak it to the Lord and to your elders maybe to your wife and keep your mouth shut just that plain just that simple so those are the marks of tyranny real tyranny now dear people if you see any of those marks I trust you will approach your elders individually if it is so clear that you can bring the witnesses bring them but unless you see one of those six or any combination of them don't accept any allegations that the elders here or anywhere else are guilty

35:51 of a tyrannical rule remember my illustration last week a spoiled brat who has never taken an order from his parent in all of his days regards any parent who exercises gracious rule over his children as a tyrant and therefore any church in which elders are ruling will always be the brunt of the accusation there's a bunch of tyrants it's a cult oh yeah we've gotten that accusation we're a cult here did you know that came as recently as just a couple of weeks ago when one of our members had blurted in his ear oh you still belong to that cult and the cult mentality being that this church is ruled by a bunch of tyrants who demand blind

Marks of Congregational Anarchy: Demanding Full Disclosure

36:34 unquestioned loyalty well you who've been here through the years know that simply is not so but now we hasten on we've looked at the difference between classic congregationalism classic ruled by elders we've looked at six abuses of the authority or rule of elders then we went on to consider in the third place the marks of congregational anarchy and insubordination and disloyalty and the to the god-given rule of elders marks of congregational anarchy and insubordination and disloyalty to god-given rulers the bible that warns about the tyranny

37:19 of oversight gives examples of the diatrophies who want to have preeminence also gives example of congregational tyranny in the old and in the new testaments and what are three of those outstanding marks here they are demanding full disclosure of the whole decision-making process before consenting in the decision of the elders when a congregation demands full disclosure of the whole decision-making process all of the things that may have been poured in over many hours many days

38:04 many weeks of wrestling with the word of god congregational anarchy exists where the congregation when asked to consent in the judgment of their elders withholds that consent until they are privy to the entire decision-making process you see this makes them in the language of adams all equal in wisdom experience and ability to make wise judgments in the government of the church of christ if three five or ten rulers can make a wise judgment three hundred members can make a wiser judgment that would be the position of these brethren well you see

38:48 that utterly negates all of the biblical imagery of shepherds who guide the sheep who do not give an account to the sheep of all of the reasons why they lead them in a certain path of good pasturage rulers and governors over the body politic which is the concept in the verb rule and obey them that exercise the rule over you the whole concept of a father making wise judgments for the best interest of his family and then demanding that he have to each child an input in which the whole decision making process is given no all of

39:32 those images totally resist this concept of congregational anarchy and John Owen saw this thing as the perceptive Christian and pastor that he was and he wrote in this way in volume 16 page 131 and I want to quote this section therefore where anything is acted and disposed in the church by voting or the plurality of voices the vote of the fraternity that is the congregation is not determining and authoritativeing but only declarative of consent and obedience it is so in all acts of rule where the

40:17 church is in complete order when in the practical exercise of rule due respect is not had unto the authority of elders there's nothing but confusion and disorder when the people judge that the power of the keys is committed unto them as such only and in them does their I use and exercise reside that is in the entire brotherhood the entire church that their elders have no interest in the disposing of church affairs or in acts of church power but only in their own suffrages or votes or what they can obtain by reasoning fully disclosing you see the decision making process and think

41:02 that there is no duty incumbent upon them to acquiesce in their authority in anything an evil act to grow in churches it overthrows all that beautiful order which Jesus Christ has ordained and you want to see a church in which the beautiful order of Christ is overthrown you see a church that will resist wholehearted acquiescence in the judgments and decisions of the eldership unless they have access to the full decision making process that's congregational anarchy and now that we're spelling it out clearly from here on in in any congregational meeting when questions reflect this spirit they're not going to be entertained there have been too many of you who

Marks of Congregational Anarchy: Skepticism and Assuming Incompetence

41:47 have come to me personally and I know to at least one other elder embarrassed by questions that have been of this very nature and now that the issue is spelled out there's no excuse for it alright secondly manifestations of a skepticism which reads into information withheld the worst of motives when do you have congregations of anarchy when there is the manifestation of a spirit of skepticism and putting the worst motives on information withheld you see when information is withheld in a judgment made by your elders it is generally

42:31 because of the principle of Proverbs 12 and verse 23 a prudent man conceals knowledge often it is prudence that is practical sanctified wisdom gracious wisdom to conceal knowledge but the heart of fools proclaims foolishness now you see you can put one of two constructions on information withheld you can say aha another Nixon cover-up or you can say thank God our elders are concerned enough for us to protect us from things that would not be

43:16 in our best interest now you can do one of two things one is born of an unfounded spirit of suspicion if you've not been in a congregation where there have been Nixon cover-ups and you who've been part of this congregation have never been embarrassed in 20 years that a double life among one of your leaders has been uncovered while they are still in office you've never had the shame of people saying oh you belong to that church where it was found out the preacher was messing around with his secretary for three or four years you've never known that embarrassment thousands of churches know it I encounter three four half a dozen every year who call me broken hearted asking Pastor Martin can you give us

44:01 counsel we don't know what to do the big cover-up had been going on for years duplicity with regard to money many things of this nature you dear people whatever sins and failures you've seen in your leaders here and you've seen many you have no reason whatsoever to have a suspicion that a Nixon like cover-up is going on in this place at any time no grounds whatsoever but the sin of your own heart and it's a form of congregational anarchy to manifest a skepticism which reads into information withheld the worst of motives again listen to Owen

44:45 who speaks so wisely the skill then of the offices of the church for the government is of a spiritual wisdom and understanding in the law of Christ for that end with an ability to make application of it that is of the law of Christ in all requisite instances under the edification of the whole church and all its members through a ministerial exercise of the authority of Christ and a due representation of his holiness love care compassion and tenderness toward his church put into concurrent Americanese it's this one of the gifts God gives to competent qualified elders is the gift of

45:30 wisdom to rule in such a way as to reflect the very character of Christ and Christ is not in a cover-up administration he said I've spoken openly in the temple you who've come to lay hold upon me I've not been leading two lives leading a secret movement to undermine the existing political order etc. so dear people recognize that for what it is I know it's difficult because we live in a day when we have been disappointed by political leaders when the cover-up has become a way of life and double talk and the rest but you see one of the things you expressed in recognizing your elders is that they

46:15 were honest men they were not men involved in cover-up did they suddenly become these horrible duplicitous rogues when they became elders they didn't get into the elders ship until they passed the screening of 1st Timothy 3 and Titus 1 and if anything else is involved in that description of godly character it certainly is honesty and integrity and unless it is established in a formal way that they have ceased to be honest men of integrity dear people don't read in don't read in this skeptical suspicion it is sinful to do so then the third manifestation of this anarchy oh my

46:59 we must hurry on when they make making interrogations which assume incompetence and on that note I close last week very quickly making interrogations which assume incompetence when matters are brought before you for your information and corporate consent please assume some credibility and competence and don't demean your leaders publicly suppose I walked into the home of one of you families on Monday evening just popped in for a little visit unofficially informally and as the lady of the house you were about to make a cake and you had all your flour and your other spices out and you're ready to make your cake and I say oh hello so and so I'm about to make a cake I say well do you

47:44 know how to read a measuring cup well once you get over the horrible implications of that question and gain your sanity and put your teeth back in place then I say oh by way where's your husband oh he's downstairs he's making a set of bookcases for our den and you go downstairs and there's the man making a beautiful set of bookcases and you say oh sir by the way do you know how to read a ruler you see what I'm driving at what am I assuming I'm assuming total incompetence in that woman's field of strength for culinary art and total incompetence in a carpenter now unless I'm just doing it for a joke what a demeaning thing

48:29 dear people don't demean your elders publicly I've had more than one person many people in recent days come to me and say Pastor Martin I don't know how you bear graciously some of the kinds of questions you get asked in public meetings now I didn't solicit that it came voluntarily but dear people having announced it and knowing that we have babes among us we cannot allow especially in people who've been with us for a number of years and ought to know better public questions that assume incompetence you get the illustration now in the four minutes that remain category number four well no I think it's

Questions and Answers: Congregational Vote and Loyalty

49:14 important enough we're going to have to deal with it in a separate thing I think we're going to have to the precise nature of authority in a congregational vote just precisely what is a congregational vote and I've wrestled with that thing all week and I believe God's given me some light and it wouldn't be right to just give you a little flashlight treatment so Pastor Bob where are you permission to bump you one more week all right he's all right we've got a few minutes for questions and on these this review and expansion of what we covered last week now please don't be shied away from legitimate questions yes if I'm not reacting to you

49:59 by a week yes is there no room at all in the way the set up of leadership for the congregation when they've worked together to approve or vote on anything to actually by majority vote reject the council or the elders and the deacons yes there may be situations where they do in which case then the elders will have to make a judgment if the issue is so clearly biblical then they must administer the rule of Christ against the majority's expression because there are times recorded in the New Testament when churches by majority were resisting the clear will of Christ

50:44 for example the majority of the people at Corinth were tolerating that incestuous man Christ spoke to the church at Sardis and he says you have a few only a few who have not defiled their garments the majority had gone into a way that was unbiblical so there may be times when there is such a level of congregational anarchy when as Moses when the whole congregation of Israel had turned against the will of God stood in the camp and said I stand here to administer God's will who is on the Lord's side and three thousand came and stood with him there may be times when there must be resistance on the other hand it may be an issue that's not clearly warranting that kind of resistance

51:29 of the current congregational consensus in which that would cause the elders to say this may not be the right time and we need to let more time pass until we can carry the judgment of the congregation in this matter so you can't say ahead of time what the indication of that vote will be and that does doesn't preempt but it does set the framework for some of the issues we'll address next week God willing okay good thanks that's a good question Phil alright time for one more question someone else have his hand raised yes Jonathan

52:04 yes well certainly many of the cults do this you remember Jim Jones had such total loyalty to himself that people gave up all discretion in the matter of the use of their money I believe that was one of the terms of joining his outfit was you turned over all of your assets and there are cults in existence like that today where minor children are taken in and told resist every effort of your parents and of the law in any

52:49 way to get you out of this commune or out of this particular framework where there is total mind control those are some of the clear manifestations of this however there can be lesser manifestations of that if elders say for example a situation where there is a divided household where you have an unconverted husband and they say to someone look when you became a member you vowed to be faithful to all the stated meetings the husband may work funny shifts so that the only time he can have any quality with his wife is on a Wednesday and they will say look I don't care what your husband says you be here to pray me that's the rule that's your vow you see that's not recognizing that that husband does have some legitimate claims even though

53:34 he had to give counsel at times women who said I long to be out to all the meetings he said yes but you have obligations other than ecclesiastical you have domestic obligations as well now the reverse of that you see the abuse of the other end of that is the teaching given for example in Bill Gothard's concepts of the loyalty of a woman to her husband in which if I understand correctly what I've read I can only say I haven't attended the seminars but what I've read and talked to people who have had problems with this so I'm going to be I don't believe I'm bearing false witness that he would say that well if your husband says don't go to any meetings submit to your husband and in that way of submission God will honor it and God will then deal with him I say well no that's an

Closing Exhortation and Prayer

54:19 extreme position on the other end because God does have claims higher than a husband forsake not the assembling of yourself together and therefore we counsel women in that situation to attend the house of God at least once during the week to be found with God's gathered people does that put some teeth in terms of the specific Jonathan okay good well our time has gone thank you for your attention to the word and let's pray that God will continue to give us understanding in this crucial matter as we move on into many new areas of responsibility and ministry as a church how blessed and happy our future experience will be if we

55:04 who lead understand our proper limits and you who follow understand yours then there can be nothing but blessedness and harmony and peace and efficiency in getting the work of God done let us pray father we are so thankful that your word is a lamp unto our feet and a light to our pathway and in this matter that has caused such heartache to so many and such disgrace to Christ in his church over the centuries we pray that you will guide us that we who are responsible to lead may never overstep our biblical bounds of leadership Lord help us to mortify every

55:48 manifestation of either cowardice in our leadership or of tyranny and despotism in our leadership all that we may reflect the heart and the hand and the spirit and the mind of the chief shepherd even the Lord Jesus and the people of God we thank you that over the years this congregation has for the most part manifested a willing joyful embrace of its overseers and of its place and we pray that that will even increase and abound yet more and more that we as a church may be like the Colossian church that any beholding the order and

56:31 steadfastness of our life and faith will be the order and the faith that we as a faith will be given occasion to praise and to magnify you thank you for our time together continue to lead us in a plain path we ask in Jesus name amen