71a) Corrective Church Discipline #3

The Major Forms of Corrective Discipline: Verbal

0:02 Let's very quickly touch on large letter C and the time that remains, the major forms of corrective discipline. And I've broken them down into these two categories of the verbal and the social. Now, in trying to break things down, it's often difficult, but I feel that these distinctions are not arbitrary, and I find them helpful in trying to collate the biblical materials.

0:35 And what are now these two major categories or forms of corrective discipline? First, there is the verbal. That is discipline that does not go beyond the use of words calculated to bring the offender to see his sin, repent of his sin, and reform his ways. Within this category, there's a range of verbal corrective disciplines.

0:59 Discipline from private to semi-private to corporate reproof and rebuke. We see that in the Matthew 18, 15 passage. If thy brother sin or sin against thee, go tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hear you, you've gained your brother.

1:18 No one else knows of the issue. If he does not hear you, take with you one or two more that at the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word may be established. That's the verbal. Private, semi-private.

1:31 Galatians 6, 1 seems to envision that. If any be overtaken in the fault, you that are spiritual, restore such a one. But then you have the open, public rebuke and reproof of 1 Timothy 5, 20. Them that sin, rebuke before all.

1:47 Here is a form of corrective discipline that is exclusively verbal. But then there is the social. At this level, there's an actual group social. Activity on the part of the church with respect to the individual.

The Major Forms of Corrective Discipline: Social

2:04 It's always preceded by and followed by the verbal, but it goes beyond the merely verbal. This ranges from a partial avoidance to no longer regarding him as a brother and refusing to give to him any of the privileges of what I'm describing as unique Christian social interaction.

2:29 Nowhere in Scripture are words, we warranted to withdraw from any man those social interactions common to all men as men. And here there's been great error and reproach to Christ in church history. Certain ecclesiastical structures that told a woman if her husband were excommunicated, she was not to cohabit with him, give him the privileges of bed and board. Nowhere does the Bible teach that.

2:56 People that would be socially separated from their own children. No, this is not what the Scripture says. If you are an employer and one of your employees is a man who's excommunicated and his sin is not affecting his work, you continue to keep him in your employment, you continue to pay him a good wage for his work, but now it may be that at lunchtime you would meet with him as a brother and discuss the things of God, and as a brother you would have distinctive Christian social fellowship. That must cease.

3:29 You may now meet with him for lunch to evangelize him, as you would a sinner who might be living with another woman, who might be a cursing, foul-mouthed wretch of a man. You will have social interaction with him that is not distinctively Christian social interaction. It is distinctive evangelistic social interaction, but not Christian. So you see the distinction that I've tried to express in these words.

Elements of Social Discipline and Historical Distinctions

3:53 The elements of social discipline involve the withdrawal, the drawing back from unique Christians, and social interaction. And surely this is the emphasis of a number of the passages we looked at. The 2 Thessalonians 3.6 We command you to withdraw from every brother that walks disorderly.

4:16 Romans 16.17 We are to mark those that are divisive, and we are to not keep company with them. We are to turn away from them. And then of course the 1 Corinthians 5 passage, this man is no longer to be given the privilege of intimate social interaction.

4:39 He has a defiling influence. He is to be put out of the church. And when the Lord Jesus said in Matthew 18, Let him be unto you as a heathen and a publican. Well, how are you to treat heathen and publican?

4:50 Jesus received publicans not as fellow members in the kingdom, but as those who could become if they would repent and believe the gospel. So that contact, that is not forbidden, but distinctive Christian interaction. And of course what is true in that general way is true in the official specific way. When the church gathers and as church expresses its union with Christ in one another in the supper of remembrance, obviously a person is to be admonished not to partake, though he may be welcome to sit among God's people, to hear the word of God, and to be exposed to the overtures of grace,

5:32 and salvation that come in the proclamation of the gospel and is mediated through the Lord's people. And this is why some have made a distinction between temporary suspension and full excommunication. And some of you, if you've done any reading, you know that these are areas where good and godly men differ and ecclesiastical traditions have differed. You will look in vain through the things of Edwards for any idea that there's any meaning in the gospel.

6:04 There's any middle ground between full communion and excommunication.

6:10 Jeschke, the Mennonite, takes a rather strong position on that, but there are others and good and godly men and confessions of faith and books of church order that do see that there seems to be some difference in the degree of the social elements of corrective discipline between Matthew 18, 15 and following 1 Corinthians 5 and 2 Thessalonians chapter 3. But these are issues that will have to be thrashed out and this is not the place to work through all those particulars. I can just point you to several things that may be helpful as you're wrestling through them. In Cotton Mathers, The History of New England,

Puritan and Baptist Views on Suspension vs. Excommunication

6:52 Magnalia Christi Americana, on page 229, there is an excellent statement on what we would call a censure and a suspension that is short of excellence. Excommunication. Let me just give you a sampling of it. He said, And if the church discern this man to be willing to hear its reproof, yet not fully convinced of his offense, as in the case of heresy, they are to dispense to him a public admonition, which declaring the offender to lie under the public offense of the church, doth thereby withhold or suspend him from the holy fellowship of the Lord's Supper,

7:37 till his offense be removed by penitent confession. If he still confesses, continue obstinate there to cast him out by excommunication. So here was a step of public censure and suspension short of excommunication, and this our Puritan forefathers here in New England saw as the teaching of the word of God, and likewise in Benjamin Griffith's marvelous little book called The True Nature of a Gospel Church, which formed the polity of the men of the Philadelphia Association, they also, had a section on suspension, pages 16 and 17. Suspension is rather to be looked upon when a church does debar a member from communion

8:20 for some irregularity he may be guilty of, which yet doth not amount so high as to be ripe for the great sentence of excommunication, but that the person for such irregularity ought to be debarred of the privilege of special communion and exercise of office in order to his humiliation and, interestingly, every text cited is from the 2 Thessalonians 3 passage. So, I say that to keep you from a simplistic view of these things and also to keep you from jumping to quick conclusions. If you happen to read Edwards, or if you got hold of Jeschke, which is not in print now, you might be so convinced and say, how could anyone who believes his Bible take any other position?

9:05 Well, just remember, there were whole groups of good and godly men who knew God and knew their Bibles, who drew up the platform of church polity up there in New England, and also our Calvinistic Baptist forefathers in the Philadelphia Association, who did see that the issue was more fluid, so that it will keep us cautious in working through these matters and keep us from standing in judgment on one another if we come up a little different in our perspective on these matters and will not believe that our brother has stepped outside the bounds of orthodoxy on the one hand, has either gone soft, if they see a halfway house of suspension short of excommunication,

9:48 or for those who take the position that there is no such place for those who are over here to look at these guys and say, oh, they're a bunch of hard-hearted, narrow-minded Pharisees. Well, you don't want to put Jonathan Edwards in that category, I hope. So maybe God will use this to at least give us a disposition of graciousness as we think of these matters. Well, shall I?

Warning 1: Beware of the Carnal Desire for a Detailed Manual

10:15 Press on through and just complete letter D. I think I can do it in five minutes without being irresponsible.

10:25 All right? Should I have your permission to just take the five minutes? I think that would be the best way to handle it. All right?

10:31 I'm giving here what I call some necessary warnings with respect to the proper understanding and wise administration of corrective discipline. And here they are. Beware of the carnal desire to have a detailed manual of corrective discipline. Every one of you, every one of us would love to have one that covers all the case histories and all we'd have to do is look at the index and say, oh, there it is.

10:57 None exists. To have such would be contrary to the genius of life in the new covenant. It would be contrary to the command of our Lord to judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment. And what's involved in that?

11:13 Matters of motivation. Even God recognized that in the strictness of the old covenant. The man who was swinging his axe and the head fell off and killed his neighbor, he could run to the city of refuge. But if he had murder in his heart, stewing for three or four days, and went over and buried his axe head in his neighbor, he's a murderer.

11:31 Kill him! The act was the same, but the motive was different. And therefore, the judgment was different. And God wants us to judge righteous judgment and any attempt to have a detailed rubric of every specific of corrective discipline and to punch it, into a computer and have it come out in a 45-page document in your church constitution is either going to create a combination of things, a legalistic mentality, it's going to create frustration, and I would spare you even the attempt.

12:05 Our flesh hates being shut up to God. But in every case, we must be shut up to God for wisdom, and when statutory law has no wise judges to interpret and apply it, we must be shut up in justice. Justice always follows. Statutory law must have wise judges to apply the law, or you have injustice.

Warning 2: Beware of Unbiblical Extremes (Laxity and Severity)

12:29 And if these words in the many texts that we've looked at are Christ's statutory law, then we need wise judges to administer it. That's godly elders and overseers to help the people of God as they wrestle with these things. So, beware of this desire to have everything hammered out in detail. Secondly, beware of the carnal tendency to unbiblical extremes in the administration of corrective discipline.

13:01 Imbalance is native to our remaining sin. Only the more careful walk before God, constant examination of the word will keep us from extremes. And the history of the church is a sad commentary on these two extremes. On the one hand, carnal laxity.

13:20 Usually, in a soft age with low standards of piety. Or, in reaction against a harsh, unfeeling discipline. The reaction against Victorian discipline was the no discipline of the next generation. And in many ways, English society is suffering to this day from my exposure to it.

13:40 A man who was beaten as a child can never bring himself to spank his own son. He's reacting with carnal laxity. While on the other end of the extreme is carnal severity. Usually after a period of rediscovery of the necessity of discipline as in the Anabaptist movement.

14:00 Here were state churches, the sacralist structure where to be born in a given area you were automatically a member of such and such a church. And the Anabaptists saw the biblical vision of the church as gathered disciples that disciplined itself and they swung clean through the median point into a carnal severity in their practice of shunning. Even making a spouse and children to leave the home. How much we need the grace of self-control that our own temperamental inclinations won't control and govern our practice of church discipline that past errors from which we are reacting will not cause us to over-react.

14:42 And one of the penetrating insights of Dabney I found when he stated persons who've embraced sentiments which after would appear to them erroneous often think they can never remove too far from them and the more they remove from them that is their former opinions they think the nearer they are coming to truth. So here's an error. They're reacting from it and they think the more I distance myself from that the closer I am to truth when in reality truth was back here. So each of us has factors that predispose us to carnal laxity carnal severity and we need to cry to God that we should be kept from both.

Warning 3: Beware of Artificial Categories of Sins

15:23 And then thirdly beware of the tendency to make artificial and arbitrary categories of sins with respect to corrective discipline. Left to ourselves we are Pharisees and Romanists. We've got to have our lists in order to hedge up God's word. But the lists given in scripture put things together we'd never put together.

15:45 1 Corinthians 5 9 to 11 along with idolaters covetous and fornicators and drunkards and distortioners are the revilers and the covetous. No covetous man will enter the kingdom. When have you heard of anyone disciplined for covetousness?

16:04 You see what happens when you get artificial distinctions? Luther rebuked a man who was to make an unjust gain from the sale of a house called an extortion publicly rebuked the man because he was going to make an excessive profit from the sale of a house taking advantage of another for his own personal gain. You find the same thing with Galatians 5 19 to 21. They who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God and along with the gross sins are anger and wrath and a party spirit.

Warning 4: Beware of Insulating Discipline from Corporate Context

16:36 So beware of the tendency to make artificial and arbitrary categories of sins with respect to corrective discipline. And then fourthly beware of the tendency to insulate the issues of corrective discipline from their corporate context. Here's what I mean. One is in a fault when gathering all the facts it's an individual matter.

16:57 However what of the rest of the church? What of the influence of the sin on them? And where do you where do you draw the line? Here's a man that in a moment of weakness went into New York City plunked out his 50 bucks and spent an hour with a hooker in a cheap hotel.

17:14 His sin is found out in his own heart. He comes discloses it. He's not been found out by man he's been found out by God. Now he asks you do I have to tell my wife?

17:27 He happens to be a deacon. Does he maintain his office? There are other people who happen to work in the area where he works in New York. Does he need to make a semi-public confession?

17:41 What do you do to deal thoroughly with that sin? There's no rule book that can tell you that. You're going to plead with God for the wisdom of Solomon and remember that greater than Solomon is here and has promised you his spirit.

17:53 When is it right to bring a family to public shame because of their identification with a sinning brother or sister? Can you protect the family and not undermine the purity and the peace and the well-being of the whole church? How do you weigh all brethren it's no simple issue. It's no simple issue.

18:13 And even though it's one individual it's an individual that stands in organic relationships within the life of the church and within the whole body of the church. And beware of the tendency to insulate the issues of corrective discipline from their corporate context. For remember one of the purposes is the glory of God in the church and the peace and purity of the church and the church in its corporate identity as the new humanity and all of these factors must continually be kept in our minds. Well thank you for letting me take that extra seven minutes to at least get through the material and there were a number of quotes that maybe I can give you copies of them some of them are not matters that are books

18:58 that are presently in print but they weren't vital and I felt it was best to get through the material. Did I have another one? Another one.

Warning 5: Administer Discipline with Required Attendant Attitudes

19:15 Okay. Yes. In my effort to rush through and push over the quotes yes I did have it. Beware of administering corrective discipline apart from the required attendant attitudes and activities.

19:28 Yes I'm glad you reminded me of that. That's absolutely critical and here I commend to you Owen volume 16 page 169 and the gist of what Owen states is that prayer lamentation a sense of future judgment all of these things according to the scripture must attend church discipline and he demonstrates it from the pivotal passages. You did not mourn he says to the Corinthians indicating that in the administration of discipline there's got to be an empathetic heart and a sense of corporate grief and it's that that I was driving at and Owen opens up those things very powerfully in volume 16 page 169. Thank you Ken for reminding me of that.

20:12 I just in the effort to get through and keep the time constraints I didn't go on to that last page and look at the printed notes.

Question and Answer: Discipline in an Unconstituted Fellowship

20:20 All right any of you that want to stay for questions for a little bit is fine those of you who have to leave leave with our blessing. Yes. I have a number of questions I'll just ask one and then defer to other brethren who probably have questions and maybe come back if there's time. Okay.

20:36 Pastor Martin in a situation not informally constituted in situation where there are certain functions of a church which are being carried out such as preaching and teaching fellowship admonition and so on if you have two professing Christians who show in their relationship man and woman patterns of sin is it proper though you are not a church after dealing with them and you find your satisfaction that they are not experiencing showing fruits of repentance to make a public announcement to those who would be let's say core members of that fellowship to the best

21:21 of your knowledge who are walking in holiness and integrity though you don't yet have a formal membership what would you recommend in a situation like that?

21:34 Now obviously obviously there's got to be some de facto incipient emerging realization that if this thing is going to be birthed as a church this will be its liniments this will be its