Necessity and Relative Priority

Defining Pastoral Counseling as Individual Shepherding

0:02 Now, you will remember, I trust, from your overall abstract of pastoral theology that we come now to unit number eight in our overall pastoral theology course in which we address the tasks pertaining to the individual needs of God's people. And that's just a long sentence or statement to address the issue of pastoral counseling. And as you see from your printed notes, I have listed at the top that this is an abstract of unit eight in pastoral theology. And we begin with an introduction that has three heads.

0:41 The first will be the most lengthy, and the latter two will be much briefer. First of all, then, when we come to the matter of definition, it's crucial that you understand what I mean by the term pastoral counseling. When the term is used in this course, it has a very specific meaning. It has a very specific framework of activity in mind.

1:05 And perhaps the best way to begin to ease in to the definition that I have had printed in your notes is to think of pastoral counseling as essentially a concentrated exercise of individual or domestically oriented shepherding of the people of God with reference to some isolated need or chronic problems that are hindering us. And I have listed two texts in the Word of God that are central in my thinking with respect to the subject of pastoral counseling. In Acts chapter 20 and verse 28, the familiar words of the apostle to the Ephesian elders, their task is laid upon them in terms of the duty of shepherding the flock of God which is among them. And in pastoral counseling, you and I are doing, just that. One of the sheep has needs discerned by you or confessed by that sheep which demands some individual attention to help that sheep in, using the sheep imagery, setting a broken bone, locating and treating a chronic stomach disorder, or helping that sheep in the healing process from the skirmishes with the wolves that may have sought to intrude themselves upon the flock.

2:33 Now, in a very real sense, all biblical preaching is counsel. And every dimension of biblical oversight exercised with the sheep is a form of counsel. But here we are thinking of that counsel in a more limited and specific dimension. Although the issue may not be a thing that would in any way be called a crisis such as an impending divorce, suicide, suicidal tendencies, a fall into some form of gross sin, it is crisis counseling in that there is a crisis in the ongoing process of spiritual maturation.

3:15 Something is impeding that maturation. Something is not being incorporated into the life essential to that maturation. And the judgment is made either by the sheep or by the shepherd or concurrently that some individual attention is needed to address that area or those areas. Now, leaving the biblical imagery of the shepherd-sheep relationship of a pastor and his people, we can bring to our service by way of defining and identifying our task the key verse pertaining to one set apart to give himself to the ministry of the Word.

3:54 1 Timothy 5 and verse 17. We are called upon to labor in the Word and in teaching and in laboring in the Word and teaching. Much of that labor is discharged in conjunction with the stated public tasks of teaching and preaching. However, when you're in your study or office or in the home of one of the sheep for a session of pastoral counseling, you do not suddenly become a different person as to your identity and your function.

4:26 You're not a different person in a different office doing something qualitatively different. You are still an elder laboring in the Word and in teaching. Now, granted, the external circumstances of that ministry are very different. There is no wooden pulpit.

4:45 There are no pews or chairs arranged geometrically. I hope you would not be rearing back on your hind legs and thundering out some declaration of God's truth and scaring the wits out of the kids up in their bedrooms. The method, is in many ways radically different at points. You are not sitting down with something that you have thought out ahead of time and laying it out line upon line, precept upon precept.

5:14 Circumstances and method very different from many of the dominant aspects of your laboring in the Word and in teaching. But the fundamental activity is the same in kind. You're dealing with people as responsible creatures in the presence of the living God. You are bringing their thoughts and their attitudes and their deeds and behavior patterns to the light of the law and of the gospel.

5:43 And in the light of God's revealed truth, you are making judgments as to the rightness or wrongness of those thoughts and those desires and motives and behavior patterns. You are being judgmental of necessity, of necessity for a minister of the Word. Whatsoever makes manifest is light and you are bringing the light of the Word of God. And furthermore, when wrong is identified, you are pointing God's people to the unique provisions, demands, and motivations of the gospel.

6:21 If someone is struggling with a given area of arrested growth and you've identified it, you don't suddenly become something other than one who labors in the Word and in doctrine convinced that God is the Word. And you are bringing the light that you are a gospel minister. So you bring the unique provisions of the gospel, the demands of the gospel, repentance and faith, the motivations of the gospel. And therefore, you are giving yourself to a dimension of the apostolic ministry as described by Paul.

6:52 Or I should say to this, you are giving yourself to a ministry that reflects this apostolic perspective on the ministry, Colossians 1, 28 and 29. Christ being the subject of the word whom, whom we proclaim, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ, whereunto I labor also striving according to his working, which works in me mightily. And here is one of the fundamental distinctions between secular counseling and that which can be called pastoral counseling. We are not just we are not interested in mere behavior modification.

7:36 In common grace, there are very effective behavior modification schemes. But Christ could vacate himself from all gospel realities and it wouldn't change a bit of that except insofar as common grace has its ultimate root in the redemptive work of Christ. No, we are there as those who are ministers of Christ, who are committed to proclaiming Christ there in the study, with this young believer struggling with impure thoughts, this single man struggling with masturbation, this woman who is wrestling with how to relate to a churlish, insensitive, non-affirming husband. We are bringing to bear the light of the law and of the gospel, the provisions, the dynamics of God's grace. We are committed to seeing people presented mature in Christ. And we are laboring striving according to his working which works in us mightily. And when you are engaged in those dimensions of your identity as one laboring in the word and in doctrine, you wouldn't think of the aspects of that labor in conjunction with public ministry without the necessity of the Spirit's illumination upon the word, discernment in the opening up and application of the word, the present existential aid of the Holy Ghost, well, you need to carry

9:04 all of those realities into the study and the pastoral counseling situation into the home. There is no fundamental, ought to be no fundamental disjuncture in terms of who you are and what you're doing. External circumstances, very different, radically different at times. The method, different.

9:22 But in essence, you are there committed to the proclamation of Christ by means of admonition and instruction in all wisdom that you might present every man, mature in Christ.

The Cruciality of a Biblical View of Counseling

9:36 Now, why is it crucial that we perceive pastoral counseling in the light of these biblical descriptions of the work of an elder? And I answer two very basic reasons. Number one, it's only in this way that we'll break the mystique of counseling and expose it for what it is. There is that mystique of thinking that unless I have a peculiar gift of being a mind reader or some unusual deposit of gift to be able to, as it were, get inside people's heads and think their thoughts for them, there's no way that I can move with certainty into pastoral counseling.

10:16 I'm young, I'm inexperienced, I'm not unusually perceptive. No. When you meet with that individual, when you meet with that couple as members of the flock of God, and you have been embraced as a duly acknowledged shepherd, a gift of Christ, a grace to his church, you have every right to expect in the proper use of the appointed means that you will be competent as a minister of the new covenant.

10:47 And so the mystique, I can think of those times in my own life when I just thought, well, I don't have all the specialized training in this area and my experience with experts in counseling was that you almost thought they were clairvoyant or they gave that impression and you felt intimidated. No. I shouldn't feel intimidated. Has God constituted me an overseer in this flock?

11:11 Is this one of the sheep that I'm to shepherd? Is this one of those to whom I'm to proclaim Christ, admonishing and teaching in all wisdom that I might present this one perfect in Christ? Then, armed and furnished with my divinely endowed weaponry and equipment, I can, by the grace of God, be what I ought to be to this one. So think of yourself and that activity biblically and it should break the back of the mystique of the great guru engaged in counseling.

11:46 And secondly, it's only in this framework that you will see that all the dynamism of the Holy Spirit promised to new covenant ministers is promised to us as counselors of God's people. 2 Corinthians 3, verses 4 to 6. The apostle, fully conscious that he was not supposed to be a minister, was not sufficient of himself to think anything as from himself. Verse 4, such confidence we have through Christ to Godward, not that we are sufficient of ourselves to account anything as from ourselves.

12:21 And therefore we grovel in our felt sense of incompetence. No. But our sufficiency is from God who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant. Not of the letter, but of the Spirit.

12:38 For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives us life. Is this an aspect of new covenant ministry? Then God makes us sufficient by the person and ministry of the Holy Spirit. So in summary, under this first heading of our introduction, and we're just seeking to define, describe pastoral counseling, I offer this uninspired, but I hope helpful, definition.

13:03 Pastoral counseling. Is a personalized exercise of shepherding the flock of God conducted as a ministry of the word in the overall context of the life and ministry of the church with a view to seeing Christ more fully formed in the one to whom we are ministering. I offer that as at least an attempt at a working definition that puts pastoral counseling within a solidly, biblically framework. And I think you see the significance of each of those various phrases as I've tried to lay it out.

Distinguishing Essential Principles from Non-Essential Variables

13:43 All right, then, secondly, by way of introduction, having worked on definition, and we could have added the word description, a vital distinction. And the distinction we must keep in view is that which sees the difference between essential principles and precepts and the non-essential variables in the application and outwork of those principles and precepts. One of the things which I continually emphasize in attempting to lay out the principles of effective preaching here in this place is that each man brings to his preaching a rich diversity of temperament, gift, divine endowment, all of those variables, and therefore to have any wooden standard of what constitutes effective preaching is to run counter to all of that biblical teaching. And we must not do that when we come into this aspect of ministerial task.

14:45 You're taught that in your preaching, your preaching ought to be smothered with your fingerprints. Well, the same is true with your counseling. Are there some fixed principles? Anything that's worthy of the name preaching, it ought to be trafficking in the stuff of special revelation in an accurate, helpful, clear way?

15:02 Yes. But the particulars of how that is done will be smothered with your own fingerprints. If it's biblical pastoral counseling, will it be rooted in bringing biblical norms to bear upon human behavior? Yes.

15:18 Will it be confrontational? Yes. Will it be dogmatic? Yes.

15:24 But how? That will be smothered with your own fingerprints. That will be smothered with fingerprints that unlike the ones in your natural hands will change with your maturation and with your development. You're not static in your own manhood and therefore your counseling will not be static.

15:42 I can do things in counseling as a 63-year-old grandfather that I never could do when I was 28 with one kid.

15:52 It would have been incongruous to even attempt it. It would have caused any thinking people to laugh and lose all credibility. But if I were to try to counsel now as though I were not the age I am and were not a grandfather and had some internal rejection of the advancing years and was trying to think of myself in terms of a 30-year-old young buck, it would be just as ludicrous. So that whole principle of nature and grace and the spirit of God not buffeting and bludgeoning what is natural but enhancing it and sublimating it, we need to remember that.

16:30 Now of necessity, when going through things, I've got to lay out here are suggestions for a way to approach this. Step one, step two, step three, but please make that distinction between the principles and precepts and the way that they will find their expression in practice. And then thirdly, just a brief word of explanation. You may ask, what in the world are you doing teaching this course?

Addressing the Problem of Availability and Compatibility of Counseling Experts

16:54 With men who do nothing but work in this field, why don't you show a little humility and get one of them in here who knows what he's talking about to give us some lectures on pastoral counseling? Well, that's a fair question. I would hope no one would ask it in quite that cheeky way, but the question itself is fair. And let me respond by giving a word of explanation and I've listed it as the problem of availability and the problem of full compatibility.

17:20 Those men, and they are few,

17:23 they're men who are greatly pressured and stressed not only by actually doing what they talk about in terms of being connected either at an academic level or in terms of a counseling center. And so their availability is limited and generally they don't count it a good stewardship to give up a number of days of their time and come and meet with 10 or 11 of us. So there is and has been over the years the problem of the availability of the men that we might bring in who have more expertise in this area. And then there is the problem of full compatibility.

18:00 While some of the men whose literature we read and from which we profit have had pastoral experience, the fact that most of them are not presently in pastoral labors greatly colors their approach to this subject. And it's inevitable that it should.

18:21 It's the same way in any field. The practitioner who's actually doing it maintains his cutting edge in his skill. And whatever my weaknesses may be, and they are many, the ones I know are enough to shame me and others may be aware of others, there is this much I can do and say I'm at least seeking to continue to do this work of fulfilling this aspect of pastoral responsibility in the one-to-one or the one-to-two or the one-to-the-family dimension of that pastoral labor. And I hope that there will be, insofar as I stay within my limitations, there will be whatever it may lack in technical expertise will be at least some way compensated for in that I can do it. And I hope that I can do it. And I carry the consciences of you men that I'm trying to convey these things as one who is presently involved in them. Well, so much for our introduction.

The Necessity for Pastoral Counseling: Biblical Demands

19:19 Now we come to an overview of pastoral counseling. And that overview will include these five heads. I'll touch two of them in the remainder of our time today and then, God willing, three next Friday. We'll deal, first of all, with the necessity for pastoral counseling and then, secondly, the proper place or relative place of priority of pastoral counseling than the framework or setting of pastoral counseling, the goals of pastoral counseling, and then the method of pastoral counseling.

19:51 First of all, then, the necessity for pastoral counseling. In the moment we use the word necessity, we're in the realm of duty and obligation and therefore we must not be careless with what we set forth as grounds for looking at pastoral counseling in the work of the ministry as a necessary dimension of pastoral ministry. And I would rest the case of necessity on three fundamental categories of concern. First of all, a biblical description of the duties of the pastoral office and function demand it.

20:30 Now, the it is what I've described under definition. A personalized exercise of shepherding the flock of God conducted as a ministry of the Lord in the overall context of the life and ministry of the church with a view to seeing Christ more fully formed in the one to whom we are ministering and I am persuaded that the necessity for this endeavor is rooted in the biblical description of the duties of the pastoral office and function which demand it. And I've listed some of the pivotal texts. You are familiar with them.

21:05 Ephesians 4, 11 and 12. The head of the church gives the church pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints unto service work unto the maturity and building up of the body. And in being given to the church for the perfecting of the saints it's evident from a passage such as the Colossians 1 passage that some dimensions of presenting those in the church mature in Christ demand the every man the every man the every woman the every one of you dimension of pastoral interaction. And then when we come to the Acts 20, 28 and verse 31 passage we've already alluded to the Acts 20, 28 we have to take heed to all of the flock of God and within the flock there will be sheep who desperately need that individual attention so implicit in shepherding them is giving that necessary individual attention and the Apostle could say in verse 31 watch remembering that by the space of three years I cease not to admonish everyone night and day with tears. Clearly implicit in that there were dimensions of individual admonition obviously given in the context of great concern

22:33 as well as compassion. And then we've already looked at the Colossians 1 27 to 28 9 passage where the emphasis again is upon every one admonishing teaching and then 1 Thessalonians 2 9 and 10 the domestic imagery that Paul uses as he describes his own pastoral ministry there at Thessalonica 1 Thessalonians 2 9 and 10 for you remember brethren our labor and travail working night and day that we might not burden any of you we preached unto you the gospel of God here you are witnesses and God also how holily and righteously and unblameably we behaved ourselves toward you that believe as you know how we dealt with each one of you as a father with his own children exhorting you and encouraging you and testifying to the end you should walk worthily of God who called you to his own kingdom and glory as a father with his own children in domestic administration some things can be done around the table with all the members of the family present many things have to be done with the individual child alone in his room on daddy's knee loving admonition instruction or discipline whatever is essential and Paul says as a father we dealt with each one of you now I've seen some extrapolate from this that means therefore

24:01 that every elder must have a deep intimate personal relationship nurtured by at least two hours a week with every member of the church well if you don't you see that's just pressing the imagery far beyond what was even remotely possible for the apostle in his brief stay and in the midst of all of his evangelistic endeavors so don't make the apostle say something that's ludicrous but nonetheless the imagery is clear and the implications of it are clear that his passionate public dialoguing in the synagogue and reasoning out of the scriptures and seeking to demonstrate that Jesus was the Christ though it was a major aspect of his life apostolic and evangelistic and missionary passion at the pastoral level there was also intimate personal fatherly interaction with the people of God and then the last text that I've listed is 1st Timothy 3, 4, and 5 where the requirement for the elder is that he be competent in domestic administration and this is so because if a man know not how to rule his own house how shall he take care of the church of God the intimate parallels between effective domestic administration and competent ecclesiastical administration and the implications for pastoral counseling are clear as one who rules well his own house knows when to give individual attention to the wife

25:29 and to the children to the domestics if one had servants so likewise proven competence there becomes the theater of proven fitness to do the work of the ministry so then the biblical description of the duties of the pastoral office and function demand it the whole concept of the good shepherd who knows his sheep by name seeks out the one that strays the terminology may be different by which we describe this and when you read the old writers you'll never find the term pastoral counseling but the concept is very clear and I want to give you a couple of quotes from the older writers listen to Calvin on Acts 20 publicly and from house to house this is the second point that he taught not only all in the assembly but individuals in their homes as each man's need demanded you see what he's saying as each man's need demanded there was a perception of need and it needed some individual or domestic attention and he is saying this is what Paul is reflecting upon Christ did not ordain pastors on the principle that they only teach the church in a general way on the public platform but that they also care for the individual sheep bring back the wandering and scattered to the fold bind up those that are broken and crippled heal the sick support the frail and the weak and he quotes from

26:59 Ezekiel 34 for general teaching will often have a cold reception unless it is helped by advice given in private accordingly there's no excuse for the negligence of those who after holding one meeting live for the rest of their time free from care as if they've discharged their duty it is as if their voices were shut up in the sanctuary since they've become completely dumb as soon as they are out of it those who learn are also warned that if they do indeed wish to be counted among the flock of Christ they must admit the pastors as often as they come to them and their private warnings are not to be avoided for those who do not think fit to hear the pastor's voice except in the church building and moreover cannot be warned and reproved at home no and fiercely reject such a necessary function into the bargain are bears rather than sheep so you see it's a two-way street there's a perception of need there may be a cry for help but he said at the same time it is assumed that the pastors are dealing with sheep who will welcome and you see many times it doesn't mean you've got to set up a big long counseling session you're following up may be as quick and furtive as my tap upon the belt line of a brother who in past days lost 50 pounds is asked to be accountable in keeping off his weight and I've noticed that in recent weeks he's put some of it back

28:28 I just tapped him on his tummy no one else heard me and said hey some of that's gone back hasn't it he said yes it has and I just had determined a couple days ago that I was going to deal with it I said good I'll pray God will help you end of discussion he comes up to me after our annual meeting Wednesday night and he said I want to thank you for taking the initiative to tap me on my tummy he said I had already been convicted had started and he said my accountability to you is a factor God uses the whole thing from the tap on the tummy to the follow up took a total of three minutes but that's meaningful ongoing pastoral interaction now I'm not about an application from the pulpit to say and so and so how is your waistline that would be unconscionable but I have an obligation of love now given our relationship now there's some people I wouldn't do that don't go out and say oh someone's struggling to wait tap them on their tummy no no no no they don't do that yeah you know some some people are struggling with their caffeine addiction I don't go up to them and say let me smell your breath and see if I smell coffee you know you deal with things in a different way but the principle is that you know who you are and who has given you your job description and if you're seeking to fulfill it graciously and wisely under the rule of Christ and someone resents that then you've got to deal with whether or not

29:57 Calvin says they're conducting themselves like a sheep or like a bear so apparently Calvin knew what it was to have some people who did not particularly welcome this dimension of hands-on pastoral interaction well then another old writer and that's all I'm doing is bringing forward two of the older witnesses though they never used the term pastoral counseling the concept was there and a rose called by any other name is a rose still and 343 of the bridges on the Christian ministry let us not think that all our work is done in the study and in the pulpit preaching the grand lever an Englishman would say lever of the ministry derives much of its power from connection with the pastoral work and it's too frequent disjunction from it is a main cause of our inefficiency the pastor and preacher combined to form the completeness of the sacred office as expounded in our ordination services and in scriptural illustrations how little can a stated appearance in public answer to the lowest sense of such terms as shepherd watchman overseer steward terms which import not a mere general superintendence over the flock charge or house hold but an acquaintance with their individual needs a distribution suitable to the occasion without which instead of taking heed to the flock over which the holy ghost made us overseers we can scarcely be

The Necessity for Pastoral Counseling: Preaching and Culture

31:26 said to take the oversight of it at all this interesting relation cheers our toil with a new tide of spiritual affections and exercises our Christian wisdom and faith in seeking of the Lord an open door in prudently improving opportunities of instruction and in adapting our mode to the different classes of our people and you notice how many allusions there were to the very text that we laid out under this matter of the biblical warrant for pastoral counseling so the description of the duties of the pastoral office and function demanded secondly the inevitable results of effective pastoral preaching will precipitate it now four of our eight years in pastoral theology deal with the subject of preaching and among other things we've emphasized the fact that the proclamation explanation and application of scriptural truth are the heart and soul of preaching and further that compassion and concern and earnestness must be evident in the ethos of that preaching well mark it down he who paves away into the hearts of his people by solid biblical instruction close application in compassion and earnestness has paved the way to his study door it's just a fact

32:55 when people sense that you're not just trafficking in notions but you are seeking to convey life-giving truth and you're doing it in a manner that validates it and I can't underscore that enough brethren I have no sympathy for the idea it's the pure white light of truth and nothing more that God uses that is unbiblical it is un-Christ like it will not wash it is not just the pure white light of truth but truth clothed with the human personality suffused by the spirit of God conveying the urgency the concern compassion all of those dimensions of spirit possessed human personality that's the grand instrument that God uses and when he's using that you pave a way into the hearts of your people by preaching and you've paved a path to the door of your study people just assume that the man knows the word he believes that God's truth is the answer to the deepest concerns of the human experience and he has a concern and a compassion that that word be internalized surely if I go to him and say I'm struggling with internalizing it here unless the man is the biggest hypocrite on the face of the earth of course he'll be willing to sit down with me and be a preacher to me and bring the word of God to bear upon me with clarity and with authority

34:23 and with compassion and with sensitivity the inevitable results of effective pastoral preaching will precipitate it this has been one of the things that has blown my mind over the years and has helped a natively sensitive and in many ways I don't have a lot of native self-confidence but it's amazed me over the years to go in various parts of the world with people of all kinds of ethnic and sociological and economic backgrounds from people in some of the poor areas of the Philippines to dignified reserved Englishmen and more volatile Welshmen etc and to find people who have come to me I've never met them before and taken me aside in a public meeting and opened their hearts at the deepest level and I said why in the world are you doing that to me a stranger he said you're not a stranger we've listened to your tapes for X number of years and I feel that I know you and the man that I know I assume would be willing to let me open my heart that's been no little thing to help me when I get the accusations of being aloof and unapproachable I said no not Christ like enough guilty not prayerful enough guilty no when people have never seen the warmth of my eyes and felt my embrace and my squeeze on their shoulder and me hugging their kids can come to a total stranger and open their hearts at the deepest level

35:52 something is being conveyed on ferrous oxide through a vibrating speaker now why do I say that to promote myself no brethren but I cannot deny my own experience I can't deny it and I know I'm not the most pleasant guy to look at when I'm preaching with my wrinkled brow and my bulging eyeballs and all the rest but that's the guy God put together that can't be somebody else but if it's me suffused with the spirit of God something of those realities will convey and that should free you up to be what God's made you God didn't make some of you look like the epitome of sweetness and gentleness so don't try to if he made you that way bless God for it and have compassion on some of us that got shortchanged in that area but remember that these are things that you can't put on they are things that deep answers unto deep of the human spirit and you know that when you're in the presence of someone who is spiritually real that sense of affinity and willingness to be vulnerable well you'll find if you preach your way into the confidence and affections of your people you've paved the way to your study door to seek pastoral counseling and then thirdly the peculiar circumstances of our culture at this time intensify the need for it the peculiar problems of our

37:21 culture at this time intensify the need for it and I'm referring to the kind of things that Paul makes reference to in Titus chapter one you remember what he says in this very unflattering stereotypic perspective about Cretans I'm glad they didn't have politically correct pressure or surely some scribes would have expunged this and we'd have all kinds of textual problems when we tried to preach through the book of Titus because he dares to say of Cretans in Titus one twelve and thirteen one of themselves a prophet of their own said Cretans are always liars evil beasts idle gluttons this testimony is true comes from a pagan describing pagans and it's true it's accurate well obviously then if you are preaching in such a society and you address the issues that need to be addressed in that society some coming out of the cocoon of the grip of that society are going to need more than public instruction Cretans are going to need some hands on pastoral help to learn how to break the pattern of being liars evil beasts and idle gluttons or idle bellies and we have similar patterns and pockets of aggravated societal sin which are the peculiar

38:51 circumstances of our culture which at this time intensify the need for what we are describing as pastoral counseling and also Romans 1 18 and following if we live at a time when there is an intensified activity of God in judicial hardening and judicial abandonment it intensifies the need for pastoral counseling you remember the whole emphasis of Romans 1 18 and following the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness and then the horrible description of men rejecting the light that God has given in creation and what does God do he doesn't stand back indifferently he intrudes in a way of positive abandonment God gave them up God gave them up verse 26 and God gives them over gave them up three times now what happens when you're preaching the gospel in that setting and God is pleased to rescue people well issues that would have been part and parcel of their lives in common grace in other times are now not there they've been part of a society abandoned and though the preaching of the word will still be the main instrument both to rescue them and to bring them to maturity there will be an

40:21 intensified need for what we're describing as pastoral counseling and then the second Timothy 3 passage is my understanding Paul is saying that characteristic of the overlapping of the ages that which we call the last days that there will be these seasons in which there will be a heightened and an intensified and an aggravated manifestation of men's depravity grievous times shall come not one grievous time but grievous times and if we have reason to believe that we are in such a grievous time in our own society then we're going to face this necessity for some of us who've lived long enough to have seen what has happened since the second world war we have seen the crass erosion of family structures when Rosie the riveter went out to help the war effort the whole fabric of the nuclear family began to be unraveled in our society and and some of us have seen it I go back to my childhood dwelling and I look up and down the street in my mind's eye and to my remembrance there was not one mother that worked outside the home not one not one now were all the homes epitomes of domestic happiness and peace no across the street was our Irish immigrants and he

41:50 was the stereotypical Irish man he loved his whiskey and I can still remember Mrs. Yates chasing her son down the street with a broom she had a fiery temper and I can still see her chasing Sonny Yates with a broom unashamedly down the street but when the broom got put away and her husband got sober there was mom and dad and Sonny and his sister in that home and up and down the street and it lent a stability it lent an unofficial government on our street everybody was watching over everybody else's kid and everybody believed the worst about his kid when his neighbor told him an unwritten compact that was something more than just what happened in our walls it was a societal phenomenon but since the second world war we've seen that disintegrate the proliferation of humanistic relativism as Francis Schaeffer has so clearly pointed out back in the fifties when a mother and a dad embraced their daughter when she went off to college and said now be a good girl what they were saying is keep your virginity to you're married now what's it mean to be a good girl only sleep with one guy at a time and by all means don't get AIDS and don't get pregnant and to help you here's a fistful of condoms here's a package full of birth control pills doesn't mean anything near what it meant then

43:18 the accumulated influence of evolutionary nonsense tell a man he's nothing but an ape advance long enough and he will descend to act like an ape at the higher levels tell him he's nothing but cosmic dust and he'll begin to live as though that's all he were and he's going to grab all the gusto he can get before he goes back to more cosmic dust just to be blown around who knows where for who knows how long it's been the bravest thing to be part of that in witnessing the intrusion of drugs some of us lived before the 60s and the drug culture and we reared our kids in a tragic naivety we did not know how drugs and deception are wedded like the devil in hell we didn't know that drugs would destroy every semblance of honesty with the fruit of our own loins we had no sphere of reference no sphere of reference we'd live long enough to see it tragic the advance of the welfare state child of the depression and the war years and the thought that you'd go to uncle for anything it was like destroying your manhood men would work three jobs before they'd get on the bread line too much dignity unconverted as the devil they stood

44:48 tall in the sense of manly responsibility and dignity it's pretty well gone I got my baptism some years ago and talked to a guy working for our pharmacist and the whole matter of his college death came up and without a sense of shame I got no intention of paying a bag he gave I was dropped into a totally different planet reared in the context where devil hell and death were three words that were synonyms I was brought up to fear death like the devil and hell itself and here's a guy who incurred it willfully with no thought of ever paying it back brainwashing power the TV is a molder of mind can you imagine seven eight kids on one of ten shut up in a home for three rainy days in a row and no television no television no one even invented them at least so people could have it I mean I'm old folks and I look back on the innocent games we'd learn to play we'd put chairs together back to back put a blanket over them and we'd play train and we'd go across country in the train and then we'd all get on each other's nerves so much my mother would come through the house and just spank us all and it would clear the air again it's a different world but you see that was not just my Christian home that was in great measure the climate brethren I don't say this to be sentimental I say it with a broken heart

46:17 and that's the world in which you're going to spend your ministry and if God doesn't break through in a mighty outpouring of the spirit of God it's getting exponentially worse each new perversion gives birth to ten more and each ten to a hundred more and whereas five years ago it just began to dare to introduce the words hell and damn and not have them as blips in a movie on TV everything but the most crass foul gutter words are used profusely and I can only imagine what the secular movies are like I just know from reviewing them I wouldn't defile my ears and eyes to see it now when God is pleased to use you and your people to reach in and rescue people like that are we putting limitations on what the grace of God can do and what the power of preaching can do no but what we're saying is these times will intensify the need for hands on individual shepherding if these people are going to be brought to maturity in Christ and that's part of the burden more than once I've said Lord I would wish I could have lived in the day when common grace operating in society was such that a man could give himself far more to extensive study when I read of the old men studying 12 hours a day

47:45 no telephone very little of the kinds of intrusions we have but that's not what God's called us to he's called us to minister in this day and to do as it says of David in Acts 13 36 to serve our generation in the will of God or by the counsel of God and to have no nostalgic looking back as I'm tempted to do and for you to have a deep yearning to be yanked out of it and just say it's too far gone well it isn't too far gone Paul's glorious statement about the power of the gospel is made in the context of him knowing what he was going to write in verses 18 and following in chapter 1 and he said I have no cause whatsoever to ever be embarrassed about my gospel he's not talking there about he's not ashamed that is he's going to draw back and be identified no I'm not ashamed I have no cause to have any sense of shame or embarrassment that my gospel will do exactly what God says it will do it is the power of God unto salvation but in its application it means that we're going to have to be involved a lot more in this discipline and privilege aspect of pastoral duty well alright brethren having covered the introductory materials in which we then moved on to the necessity for pastoral counseling we come in the last part of today's lecture to the proper place or the relative

Relative Priority: Public Preaching Over Counseling Demands

49:15 priority of pastoral counseling years ago I heard one quaintly but wisely state that if the devil cannot freeze us out of the performance of any duty he'll attempt to burn us up in the discharge of that duty if he can't freeze us out from the performance of it he'll seek to burn us up in the discharge of it and that's true with regard to pastoral counseling and therefore you and I must have some general principles with reference to the place that we give to pastoral counseling in relationship to our other ministerial duties specifically and our generic duties as Christian men that is as husbands fathers citizens sons grandsons etc and perhaps the most fundamental axiom with respect to the relative priority of pastoral counseling is that which I've listed as axiom number one as a general rule do not allow the demands of pastoral counseling to erode the disciplines essential for consistent solid fruitful public teaching and preaching of the word of God now that's a mouthful but I don't know how to reduce it and still state what I want to state that will be a helpful guideline

50:44 in sorting out this matter of the relative priority of pastoral counseling as a general rule now there may be times when in a crisis you may need to give time to a needy sheep a needy family that will greatly erode your normal patterns both of general study and of specific preparation and you may have to fall back on a sermon preached years before in order to responsibly handle the word of God so I am not saying that there is never a time but as a general rule don't allow any patterns of involvement in pastoral counseling that will erode the matters essential to this kind of public ministry I didn't say now that will erode the perfect polished sermonic exercises a man who is aloof from his people may preach more homiletically and more perfectly aesthetically beautiful sermons but if he is distant from his people he doesn't know their struggles it will have no real relevance to them or little relevance and little grip upon their affections the sheep will know him to be detached and therefore we must not do that and so some of these pressures that would erode those disciplines essential to this kind of public ministry will come from our people some of them will come from our own heart

52:13 I've seen men who really got obsessed with pastoral counseling because they entered a kind of god-like relationship of control and there was a legitimacy to probe into people's lives in detail and it was frightening to see how there was something obviously sick and unmortified in their own spirits that was feeding on the carrion of this position of greater intrusion and influence and power over some of the people in the flock and you must beware of any involvement in pastoral counseling in which there begins to be excessive control and excessive input and dependence upon you in which you usurp the place of the Holy Spirit and the scriptures and of Christ himself and there are people willing to let you have that place you become their personal guru and the kindest thing you can do when they begin to as it were like an unweaned child want to suck at mama's breast till age twelve you've got to wean them from yourself and in some cases that's difficult you've been an instrument under God who in your public ministry and in your pastoral counseling has greatly helped them but then through some perversion in their own hearts conscious or unconscious and something in your own that can develop into an unwholesome chronic dependence that is not in the best interest of their spiritual progress or in your overall

53:42 usefulness and you just need to be aware of that and if down the road you think oh wait a minute that's what Pastor Martin was talking about yeah that's it and begin under God to deal with it and then there will be as I say these pressures from your own people and everyone is naturally lazy and some will be tempted to lean upon you in a way that is not helpful and if word gets out amongst the people that you are under God competent in giving counsel then more and more of these pressures will become upon you well when you're sorting out your schedule ask yourself am I allowing pastoral counseling to take such a place that all of those disciplines essential for a long term fruitful rich public preaching and teaching ministry are being eroded if so something something's rotten in Denmark and you better deal with it now I'm not saying that we go to the extreme that William Romaine went but if I could have one tenth the usefulness of William Romaine I don't think I'd be too reluctant to have someone say this about me listen to what Ryle says in his 18th century Christian leaders when writing a book about Romaine page 169 he was not perhaps what would nowadays be called a quote genial man he was naturally close and reserved says Cadogan apparently one of his biographies irritable to a certain degree short and quick in his replies and frequently mistaken as being rude and morose

55:11 where he meant nothing to be of the kind had he paid more attention than he did to the various distresses of soul and body which were brought before him he would have had no time left for reading meditation and prayer and in short for what every man must attend to in private who would be useful in public it was not uncommon for him that is Romaine to tell those who came to him with cases of conscience and questions of spiritual concern i.e. they wanted pastoral counsel it was not uncommon for him to say that he said all that he had to say in the pulpit thus people might be hurt for the moment by such a dismissal but they had only to attend to his preaching and they soon found that their difficulties had impressed him as well as themselves that those difficulties had been submitted to God and that they had been the subject of his serious and affectionate consideration they found their concern coming out in the preaching of the word now in our day if a man were to do that he'd be he wouldn't be long he wouldn't last long either thing tell people anything I have to say to you is going to be said in the pulpit and then if they saw their case actually addressed in the pulpit without name we had an incident recently someone was greatly offended because a visiting preacher brought an application that this

56:41 individual thought described them and rather than say God you're speaking through the mouth of a visiting preacher this person drew up a scenario whereby we as elders disclosed his or her personal problem to the visiting preacher and hid behind him as cowards to attack her and that's not a rumor we cut it in writing so we had to stoop to call across the ocean to the visiting preacher and ask him three questions did any elder talk to you about the problems absolutely not that's ludicrous were you coached in any of your absolutely ludicrous and I forgot what the third was so that we could in trying to win this person back say the preacher has been contacted this is all in your imagination could it be that the real issue is God spoke to you but you see that again is part of the climate in our day with the idolatry of the dignity of my individuality brethren you got a rough road to home in trying to preach with close applicatory spirit discerning preaching in a context where it's considered the cardinal sin that you should even obliquely address something that actually applies to somebody it's a different world but anyway see that as it may we don't want to go to where Romaine went

58:09 but there must be a golden mean somewhere that men who are so absorbed in one counseling session after another that they are not feeding those subterranean streams of the well of general knowledge expanding their own minds their general reading and then their deep reading of the word of God and the disciplines necessary to produce solid responsible relevant lively attractive sermons week after week after week just a matter of introductions when you've been in one place for 30 plus years it's work it's praying work but today anybody can predict my introductions I hope there's more than one person in my face and saying you're losing it you've been here for 20 years you can't predict my introduction Pete can you and that just don't happen I got a computer now but there ain't no software that says unique fresh introductions I actually know how to get stuff up on the screen now you guys who've grown up with these things you can't appreciate what that means for some of us in literates but nonetheless brethren in all seriousness please take this axiom to heart don't allow and I don't say that as someone who doesn't have many opportunities to be involved in nothing but pastoral counseling and it's hard to say well I'm sorry I cannot meet you on Friday

59:37 unless this is a real pressing emergency I have previous commitments and the commitments are written in your calendar preparation day and if they have the cheek to say well would you mind telling me what the commitments are you say really that's none of your business say it's really no you just may have to help in instruct them sometimes you have to do that and say well when you come Lord's day you expect them to be oh yes well you won't be if I don't keep my commitment on Friday you say it nice and sweetly alright but nonetheless make it plain you're not to be bullied by their sense that's another one of the things you're dealing with a generation that every time they cried mama was there or the person in the day care center to fawn to care instant gratification instant attention I can't wait well you need to be Christ man doing Christ work in Christ way and not be bullied by people alright axiom number one then we have axiom number two don't allow the demands of pastoral counseling with chronic problems to erode time available for positive constructive pastoral influence now here we go back to the fact that God has said that certain ethical and moral patterns bring with them specific , irreversible results after David's sin Nathan's reproof

Relative Priority: Avoiding Sinkholes and Responding to Trends

61:06 and God's announcement of chastisement that would dog him to the end of his days a counseling clinic staffed by ten J. Adams and ten Wayne Max could not reverse the influences of divine chastisement upon David his family was going to come apart at the seams his influence and credibility in the kingdom would be eroded and no amount of pastoral counseling could change it now thank God there is a doctrine of restorative grace and how often have I in pastoral counseling opened up to Joel chapter 2 and verse 25 I will restore the years that the locust is eaten and the years that the canker worm is eaten there is a doctrine of restorative grace and we must bring that into perspective but after David's sin the disintegration of his household the loss of grip upon the nation no counselor could help and likewise in pastoral counseling situations there is some that to spend an inordinate amount of time is to pour your time into a sinkhole and when we come to matters of chronic problems and where at what point should we actually take on the situation at what point should we dismiss it we'll give some counsel but maybe this illustration will help you suppose you went into a village and after you had been there a while you noticed

62:36 that many of the villagers manifested common disorders they were chronically sick upset stomach diarrhea and as you tried to find out what the problem was you realized that there was polluted water coming into the town and the air was polluted and as long as they were breathing that polluted air they had various problems with their lungs and drinking that water with their gastrointestinal system you can do one of two things you could spend all of your time giving first aid to try to help their stomach cramps and to help their budding emphysema or you could give a good bit of your time addressing the source of the polluted water and the things that were creating the polluted air now after ten years what would be the most kind beneficent thing you could do not to have spent all your time treating these very real symptoms but giving your energies to treating with the source that was creating the problems now liken that to pastoral counseling and preaching preaching under God as the instrument to go to the heart and the fountains of the streams that come into the village the mindset of the world the things we were referring to in my little potpourri of recommendation of Wells work and of Dr. Carson's work coming to grips with the things that have been the fountain

64:05 heads of all of the polluted streams that are making people sick in their stomachs causing their lungs to be less than fully functional and we have got to give ourselves to the kind of study and preparation and labor and preaching that is changing the streams and changing the pollutants in the air while at the same time giving due attention to those who if they don't have some immediate attention may perish and how do you sort that out I can't say for anyone but at least I find that illustration or analogies in that area helpful to me and this is where you come back again to one of the fundamental premises in conjunction with preaching do I believe that the preaching of the word is the primary instrument ordained of God to carry forth his work and this is where your theology of preaching is put to the test and if you do believe that and you believe it based on biblical data and on God's confirming witness in the history of his church then that will help you to sort out how much time you give to pastoral counseling in relationship to the other responsibilities of the ministry then axiom number three do not allow current ministerial trends and fads to dictate your practice and emphasis upon pastoral counseling don't allow

65:34 present emphases that should be emphases plural present emphases upon pastoral I'm sorry where am I I lost my I do not allow current ministerial trends I'm sorry I'm switching from these notes over to these and under that head I want to say three things the present emphasis upon pastoral counseling has been nurtured in a climate in which biblical preaching has been at a low end now I always find it helpful if I want to know what to do with the baby to look at its mama everything bears after its kind now I have seen this emergence and proliferation and now inundation of the evangelical Christian church with this emphasis upon pastoral counseling I have lived long enough to see its emergence and its flowering and I say what's its mama well by and large its mama is a period in which biblical preaching has been at a low end if you doubt that statement then please go read David Wells no place for truth read his tabulation of his extensive statistical input from a number of modern evangelical seminaries in his second work a whole chapter given over to showing what has happened of people's view of the place of preaching

67:03 in the life of the church and its tragically revealing well in the light of that don't allow this present climate that has birthed this obsession with pastoral counseling to shape your perspectives don't allow current ministerial trends to dictate your practice and your emphasis for example if I had to wrestle with this matter of detailed follow-up and quote discipleship plans I've witnessed that emergence what gave birth to it modern mass evangelism with all of its emphasis upon decisionism that wasn't producing changed lives and along comes the follow-up system to butt this up corpses when I have known enough church history and accounts of genuine movements of the spirit of God in which the masses who were converted were so transformed and incorporated into the life of the church that society was radically impacted now you can't tell me these are two of the same things when a few years ago almost one-third of the adult population in America claimed to be quote born again at the same time when there is this exponential slide into total moral relativism something's wrong so you

68:33 gotta ask what is the mama of this particular emphasis and if we back off and say what has mothered this obsessive interest in pastoral counseling it has not only been some of the peculiar pressures of the present state of society that I've already alluded to and that has biblical roots to be sensitive to that but it has also been this climate in which biblical preaching has been at a low ebb in which many people don't even know what biblical preaching is and in which confidence that it is one of the mighty instruments ordained of God to the pulling down of the strongholds of the enemy is simply not appreciated and even and here I want to give a word of caution even in that which I've already endorsed of the reaction against Rogerian Skinnerian Freudian Jungian psychotherapy and all of the rest there's been the emergence of the new fedic counseling school and biblical counseling brethren I fear that men are far more many men far more excited about going to a seminar on pastoral counseling than if they had an equally competent seminar on how to be better preachers you can pack them in on how to grow your church and how to meet this need and that need but we need to beware and ask God to help us

70:02 that we will not let our practice be dictated by a present emphasis upon pastoral counseling nurtured in the climate in the in which biblical preaching has been at a low ebb one sermon delivered in the power of the Holy Ghost brought home to the theater of the consciences of men may do more good to the number of people to whom it's preached than a hundred hours of pastoral counseling do you have that kind of confidence in the preaching of the word I trust you do second thing I want to say under this third axiom is the present emphasis upon pastoral counseling has been nurtured in the context of the judgment of God upon a God rejecting society and this interfaces what I stated earlier it's not an exact repetition of it the obsession with sex marital problems confusion of roles rebellion against constituted authority crass individualism egalitarianism these things lie at the root of so many counseling sessions they are the result of the judgment of God upon the society that has been given over to its apostasy we are not a non-Christian nation we are an apostate nation and if you know anything of your Bibles and particularly the prophets those are two different things Nineveh was a pagan society when the northern tribe ascended to captivity it's an apostate nation

71:30 it has rejected light it used to puzzle me why did God say after warning them before they came into the land in my naivety say God why did you have to warn them not to mess around with worshipping idols and cohabiting with beasts and I used to read some of that and I didn't question God but frankly I couldn't empathize too much with him why has God got to warn them about that they're his people then we send them into captivity he says you did worse worse than the nations I dispossessed why because they were apostate those nations sunk into those depths defying the light of nature but when Israel defies the light of special revelation she sinks deep further and that's the explanation of what's happened in our nation we're an apostate nation we were never covenantally God's nation I know that but we were flooded with gospel light and gospel privilege and that's been rejected and now you've got to deal with people and you see you've got to have the long term vision and say look there's so much mess here everyone's got clogged lungs and upset stomachs you could spend your time from morning till night and you're right treating those symptoms of very real diseases you've got to have the long ray vision that says no I'm willing to appear by some as a bit detached from that I'm in this for the long haul that if God would bless the labor of the ministry of the word of God

73:00 some of these polluted streams will begin to be cleansed and the air will be cleansed not only to the healing of those immediately under my care but so the ones born in that village will have a healthy environment in which to grow up and develop and never be plagued with the upset stomach and the clogged lungs of their parents you've got to be in this for the long haul brethren you've got to be and you'll pay a price for that but know what you're doing and have the long term vision and stick

Relative Priority: Competence, Diversity, and Humility in Counseling

73:39 quite with it and then we need to recognize as well this third strand the present emphasis upon pastoral counseling tends to make a man feel incompetent unless he has had specialized formal training in this area because there's such a spate of literature and seminars and pressure to be with it it's like a man who's in broad evangelicalism if he can't show that he's been to at least two church growth seminars a year he's not going to have much standing with his brethren and thank God you won't face that in the circles in which you live and move but it could be that the emphasis in this area can begin to encroach itself and begin to put pressures upon us that would make us feel somewhat intimidated and incompetent unless we can show that we've taken off a month of our time to attend this or that special seminar and get this certificate in competent counseling I don't mean to despise the place of seminars and good books and what some of those things may do to help us but at the end of the day if you're soaking your soul in your Bible and tracing out the windings of your own heart and having godly spirit directed Bible based dealings with your people

75:00 and you should not feel in any sense that you're a second class citizen or servant of the living God and also what it will do is it will help you to be pressured to think even more in a biblical context of the body ministering to itself in love and you'll learn how to identify those in the congregation who have equal or in many cases more competence in an area where

75:30 when people come to me for career counseling I just tell them look I'd be glad to pass on some general principles but I said I've been stuck in the rub all my life I've never had to wrestle with a matter of career and all of the rest but I'll tell you two men in the church who've wrestled with it and who have hammered out some good biblical principles I advise you to go see so and so and so and when someone's struggling with the application of biblical principles to long term financial planning I've got the experts that I send them to you've got some people that want your counsel on buying a house well we heard Wednesday night which of the deacons has some expertise in there and knowing whether the house is buy worthy or not well you learn how to utilize the other members of the body and here again you see if you're free of any kind of an idolatrous attachment to your image you're glad to farm out not only competence acknowledging others are competent but the affection and the appreciation that will grow towards that person when they have helped them in the way you haven't you see that's the problem with some men they've got the control because they're so insecure that if someone were to come to them that's why if they have a visiting preacher there would be a man more gifted than themselves they just would wither if someone said pastor I've never ever preached like that what that means is you don't preach as well as either and you've got to be able to put your arm around and say me too brother isn't that great and be able to do it from

77:00 heart rejoice that your people heard someone more gifted than yourself rejoice that God will use the visiting preacher you may have been laboring for years to pound out a given truth and people come up wide-eyed and say oh that's great I've never heard that before well they didn't the Holy Ghost gave them years the day the visiting preacher was there never gave them years all the years you're dumping it out well you see if you're tied up inside and your people sense that one of the most telling indications of a man's character is how much liberty his people feel to praise other servants of God around him tells worlds tells worlds well these are my exhortations about this matter and you don't want to get bullied I've got a little excursus there I need to stick to my notes uh this is the first time after the semester so there's stuff built up you indulge me won't you I hope you will now then we come to axiom four don't forget that is in all aspects of ministerial function there will exist a great diversity of aptitude and extent of usefulness in pastoral counseling now this again is a vital vital principle to keep before us the scriptures tell us in the passage that I have set before you again and again first Corinthians chapter twelve that with respect to gifts first

78:30 Corinthians chapter twelve verses four and five there are diversities of gifts but the same spirit diversity of administrations and the same Lord diversities of workings but the same God who works all things in all but to each one is given the manifestation of the spirit to profit with all and just as in the area of preaching there is this diversity of divine endowment of development and all of these other variables the same will be true with respect to pastoral counseling some of you because of the way God's put you together your whole bearing and demeanor will be far more welcoming to the people you will have a much more accelerated involvement early in your ministry in pastoral counseling and as your reputation grows in that area this may develop into one of your areas of greater strength

79:48 we don't hold up any artificial standard here any more than we do in preaching there must be certain modicum of the biblical standard yes, but within that diversity of operations diversity of gift diversity of endowment diversity in all of these areas and you and I though we must constantly labor to stir into flame the gift of God that is in us that we must do our utmost to show ourselves approved unto God in every facet of ministerial endeavor don't in any way push to the background this axiom there is a great diversity of aptitude and extent of usefulness in pastoral counseling now why is it important to remember this well let me give you very quickly five very practical outgrowths of this number one, don't be idealistic about who is the competent counselor, Romans 12.3 be realistic, not idealistic think soberly according as God has dealt to everyone the measure of faith and if this is not one of your richer endowments covet earnestly the better gifts pray that you'll stir up into flame what you have, but accept the fact that just as some men will just reach a modicum of competence in their public ministry and never be known as exceptional preachers some may never be known as exceptional counselors

81:15 and don't be threatened by that don't be unstrung by that don't be idealistic, secondly don't be discouraged this is the problem when you read the experts who are doing nothing but this who obviously have some proven competence or have conned others that they do so that the market is there for them to write a book and only God knows in some cases what it is, but in many cases it's someone who's had a proven competence and as one of the old writers said about preaching let a man attain some degree of usefulness in preaching and then he will make his rule the law for everyone else in terms of the particulars well, the same is true for in the area of counseling and don't do that don't be discouraged thirdly don't be envious 1 Corinthians 13 love envies not and as you get to know brethren that have far more involvement in this far more wisdom rejoice in their gifts don't be envious love envies not and then certainly if you have some competence don't be proud that's the fourth line 1 Corinthians 4 7 what have you that you did not receive don't be proud if God's given it the gift is given to serve Christ and his people and ultimately to see his church brought to fuller maturity in the statue of Christ don't be proud and then finally don't be smug don't be smug I've already indicated the text stir into flame the gift of God that is in you do your utmost to be approved unto God but recognize at the end of the day

82:44 there will be a great diversity of aptitude and extent of usefulness in pastoral counseling well I got