Christian Position of Military Service

Introduction to Open Forum Guidelines and the Question of Military Service

0:04 Now, particularly for the benefit of our visitors and the rare occasions when Professor Garlington is not able to be with you as your teacher, it's my privilege to take the class, and I generally conduct it in terms of what we call our open forum, and there are just several guidelines that we ought to be aware of as we enter this time. One, you are free to ask questions concerning matters that pertain directly to what has been taught in the class or in the regular ministries of the Word of God in our assembly, or matters that have arisen in your own study of the Word, in your own wrestling with the realities of the Christian life. In other words, there are very few specific guidelines to give with regard to subject matter, just so long as it is a subject that arises out of the broadest of the various broad concerns of God's truth and the implications of that truth for our lives as His people. Now, the teacher or instructor or catalyst for discussion, whatever my function may be, in the hour, reserves the right to make a judgment as to whether or not the taking up of your question will fit the guideline of 1 Corinthians 14, which says, In all public ministries, the regulative principle is, let all things be done unto edification,

1:28 and occasionally someone raises a question which may be a burning issue to the individual, but in my judgment would not be of general edification, and so we trust if you raise such a question, you'll not feel that you're being put down if I make the judgment and refuse or table the entertaining of that question as a public matter and agree perhaps to discuss it with you privately. We do encourage women as well as men to ask questions. Some of you may wonder why we do that in the light of 1 Corinthians 14, which we hold to be a directive concerning public worship that is not culturally bound, is not a reflection of the Apostle's prejudicial rabbinical training and his anti-feminist attitude, as so-called evangelicals are telling us in our day, but we do believe when Paul says, if they have questions, let them ask their husbands at home, that the context indicates that they have questions. That the kind of questions that were being asked and the manner in which they were being asked was reflective of a spirit of insubordination on the part of the women in the Corinthian congregation. We do not regard the asking of a question in an open forum in this structure as reflective of that spirit, and therefore we do not believe the prohibition applies in this context, and

2:53 so again we feel it necessary from time to time to make that. Lets assume that we have our discussion principle clear so that you will feel at liberty, to ask the question which may be upon your mind and heart. All right. Who has a question?

3:09 Yes. All right. All right. You all get the question.

3:32 The Lord has told us very clearly in Matthew, Chapter 5, and lets turn to the verse that was eluded to, in a description of the characteristic of the sons and daughters of the kingdom of God. 4.50.2.2.34.3.

3:49 we have in the Beatitudes. We have a composite picture of the character traits of the true sons and daughters of the kingdom, and they and they alone are truly blessed with eternal blessedness. Our Lord says in verse 9, blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God. The indication being those who are not peacemakers will not be called the sons of God because they are not what they would be called. And to be devoid of the disposition of a peacemaker is to be a stranger to the disposition of a child of the living God. All right. Now, the question is, is there any reconciliation between this and the matter of conscription for military service or the broader question for military service at all? Yes.

4:46 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

4:46 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

4:47 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

4:47 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

4:47 Yes.

4:55 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

4:56 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

4:57 All right. How do we respond to that? What is the first principle that we must come to grips with? Yes.

5:02 Pat. Right. So you would say that the regulative passages for a Christian wrestling with this are such passages as Romans 13 and 1 Peter. All right.

5:30 Let's turn to those passages and see if they do give us some light. All right. the question in fact let's hold off turning to them and sort of put them on the shelf here for a minute all right Romans 13 and first Peter 2 is another passage can we just hold those Pat there's a fundamental principle that we must understand and within which we must set this discussion it's a distinction between two things without which our discussion will not make any sense do we know what that distinction is yes Paul you want to enlarge upon that all right

Distinguishing Individual Ethics from Governmental Authority

6:48 so what you're saying is that when we turn to the scriptures the scriptures address certain to the people of God as the people of God which must not be carried over into national political structures is that the point you're making and there are certain things addressed to structures of Authority and political entities and governmental entities which must not be carried this way in the regulation of the life of the people of God is that the distinction you're making all right on how would you justify that distinction in that a convenient cop-out all right all right well let's turn then to the Romans 13 passage and see if if the assertions

8:04 that Paul has made are valid Romans chapter 13 now remember the Apostle has expounded the doctrines concerning God's salvation in Christ salvation from the guilt and penalty as well as from the Dominion and power of sin a salvation that has been sovereignly dispensed among the nations Romans 9 through 11 and now he's giving an intensified exhortation with regard to the practical out workings of this doctrine I think it's essential in taking up this subject to you look at the immediately or the immediate context preceding Romans 13 writing to believers as believers in their relationship to their fellow men notice verse 17 the beginning of the paragraph render to no man evil for evil take thought for things honorable in the sight of all men if it be possible as much as in you lieth be at peace with all men hath thought for things honorable in the sight of all men if it be possible as known among evening then unpacking and

9:25 don't know God hath a strong point on this she asked she said I am wash your face your heart governmentful to the early days he did and in the Court but not when the judge is το works are observed and thy arms areuped theyữa healed hath in man my death hath done thyself of those having sinned unto God the bible's plain instead of going out on a battlefield with a gun go on out with a lunch bucket and go to your enemy and don't shoot bullets at him put sandwiches under his nose and they would base it on a passage such as this but let's read right on now unless we're prepared to accuse the apostle of being woolly headed totally inconsistent with himself we'll see that such deductions are not proper deductions from this passage let every soul that is every soul of a believer who has the attitude that he will not engage in personal vindictiveness upon others let every soul be subject to the higher powers for there is no power but of god for the powers that be are ordained of god he that therefore he that resisteth the power withstandeth the ordinance of the power of god and the power of god and the power of god and the power of god of God, and they that withstand shall receive to themselves judgment. For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. And wouldst thou have no fear of the power? Do that which

10:52 is good, and thou shalt have praise from the same. For he, that is, the civil governor, the powers that are ordained of God, is the minister of God to thee for good. But is that all he is? No. But if thou doest that which is evil, be afraid. For he beareth not the sword in vain. Now, in the Roman context, what was the sword? Was it something you put up on your wall in your den to decorate it? No? All right, it was the instrument of execution.

11:29 And this passage says, he beareth not the sword in vain. Why? Because he has usurped the sword against the director. Are these the instructions of Matthew 5? No. For he is a minister of God, and a venger for wrath to him that doeth evil. Now, in the preceding context, God says, vengeance is mine. Now, according to Romans 13, what is one channel through which God cuts a path for his vengeance to men? Not the only, but what is one of the channels according to Romans 13?

12:10 All right, the civil governor. The civil governor becomes a channel through which Almighty God avenges wrath upon evildoers. Now, if that be so, then you see immediately the problem with taking passages that are directed to the people of God in their attitude to other individuals as individuals, and applying them one for one to the conduct of governments in the presence of evil. Do you see why we cannot do that? These passages in Romans, where they're set back-to-back, at least give us the framework within which we must operate in the consideration of this question. All right, someone, one or two or three, had hands raised, bursting to amplify the question or to give contributions. Yes, Sam?

Correcting Misapplications of Old Testament Law and Christ's Mission

13:04 It's a correction of a wrong application of the Old Testament, Matthew. It's already saying no such thing as law is wrong. So we can't be saying no such thing as law is wrong because it's law. The problem must be law sometimes is not legal at a time of such a time. Yes. The application of the law is the law of the government.

13:54 Yes, and this was the error into which these followers of the rabbinical teaching had fallen. This direction quoted from the Old Testament is in the context of the administration of Old Testament civil law. If someone had wronged an Israelite and that wrong could be proven by two or three times, you would be in danger. You would be in danger, you wouldn't be in witnesses before the elders or the judges of Israel, God was giving them direction as to how proper restitution should be made in this, quote, civil suit. And now they were picking it up and applying it as a basis and a framework of personal ethics, apart from the operation of the civil structure. And our Lord says, no, for you, my people, in your one-to-one relationship to other individuals, you are not either to usurp the rights and prerogatives of the civil government or to have a disposition of getting even. We must manifest the spirit of our Lord, who when he was reviled, reviled not again, but committed his cause to him that judges righteously. All right?

15:00 Yes, David, and then over to Mrs. Mikowski, and then we'll come back, all right, to our original question. Yes.

15:31 Yes, and our Lord is the great example of that himself, is he not? In Matthew chapter 10, what did our Lord say? Think not that I came to send peace on the earth. I came not to send peace, but a what?

15:48 A sword. And then he mentions how that sword of division will cut into the deepest human relationships. And he bears full responsibility for it. He said, I have come to set a man against his father and the daughter.

16:01 the mother and the daughter-in-law against the mother-in-law and a man's foes shall be they of his own household and he says I bear the responsibility it's part of my mission to call people into such unquestioned loyalty to myself that if that loyalty conflicts with the deepest ties of human affection they will evolve their loyalty to me at the expense of being cut off even from the most intimate friends so in that sense Christ is upset many a household that was at peace before he came into the life or lives of one or some of its members and he bears full responsibility for it so here again we see an expanding now of what blessed are the peacemakers cannot mean all right this is Mikowski and then we'll come back to the original question yes now if if anyone takes the very foolish position and I don't say that unkindly but I believe it deserves the name folly the fool this position that war is intrinsically evil then they have God guilty of gross sin I mean they've got to take all the sections of the Old Testament in which

God's Command for War and Judgment on Pacifism

17:30 God not only commanded Joshua and his armies to go in and fight but God himself pledged his presence to give them success and in reading Old Testament history again and again you have this language and Jehovah fought for them that there was a peculiar presence and power of God attending the whacking and hacking of the swords of the soldiers of Israel when they went out against Canaanites they became instruments of God to bring judgment upon the Canaanite nations and you remember that was not arbitrary the very timing of the conquest of Canaan was bound up with God's judgment upon the iniquity of those people you remember he said the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full so God even showed long-suffering to those nations until God said all right my long-suffering is done Joshua and your troops now it's time to go in and whack their heads off and exterminate them and it was God who commanded even we'd say quote innocent children to be killed now either you've got to say that God was evil in doing that or you've got to back off from the position that war is intrinsically evil that taking human life is intrinsically evil it is not intrinsically evil the circumstances within which it is taken constituted either evil or a virtue

18:56 there are certain situations when it is positively evil not to take human life when the refusal to take human life is done so in disobedience to the clear teaching of the Word of God and you remember how God judged his people that's why the Prophet Jeremiah could say cursed be he that doeth the work of the Lord deceitfully and keepeth back his sword from blood when God says go in and kill your people when God says go in and kill your people when God says go in and kill your people and slay you remember what he did to King Saul why was he deposed from being a king God had said to go in and do what to the Amalekites destroy the moderately and then God got specific men and women children beasts and cattle and what did Saul do he spared the chief men and the best of the cattle and what did God do as a result God says you're not going to be king for disobedience is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as idolatry. Now that's what God thinks about a person's unwillingness to kill at his command. So you see this woolly-headed thinking, and it's amazing how it's spilled over into evangelical circles. You find evangelicals, the latest caucus of evangelical feminists. I was reading the article in the Evangelical Newsletter by someone quite

20:09 sympathetic to the cause, so it isn't someone who was prejudicial to what was going on, said that there was a call for disarmament and the call for this, that, and the other, all in the name of evangelical religion. Well, I don't know where they get that evangelical religion. They certainly can't get it out of the same Bible that I read, because the God of the Bible is the God who executes vengeance even in the taking of human life and the commanding of his people to do the same. All right, now back to the original question. All right.

New Testament Evidence for Christian Military Service

21:33 Well, I think now you're opening up the question into a realm that would demand a much more extensive and logically thought-out thesis than I'd be prepared to give on my feet. I mean, I could talk off the cuff, as it were, to some of the reaction to that, but the basic problem with the Mennonite position and the so-called Christian pacifist position is that it has its roots in a truncated view of the scriptures. It comes out of the Anabaptist movement, which is the Anabaptist movement, which is the Anabaptist movement, which is the Anabaptist movement, which is the Anabaptist movement, which is the Anabaptist movement, which is the Anabaptist movement, which is basically a One Testament religion. Anabaptism, as a religious perspective on all of life, is basically a One Testament religion and refuses to believe that, in essence, though they would never say this, the liberal thesis is the God of the Old Testament is not the same as the God of the New Testament. Well, in the practical outworking of any position that says all we need to know that is regulative, where our life is found within the pages of the New Testament, is essentially that same position where the rubber touches the road, because the scriptures themselves tell us that all scripture is inspired of God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. And when Paul wrote that, he was referring explicitly and primarily to the Old

22:56 Testament scriptures as being regulative of teaching, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness, and that the Old against the New in that radical way we regard as a mishandling of the scriptures, and that the New Testament scriptures themselves do set forth in such passages, and I'll give these very briefly, all right, and then perhaps it would be best for us to leave it there, and then I can suggest some further reading for you that I think will be helpful. When the soldiers came to John the Baptist, he had been preaching the doctrine of repentance, and he had been preaching repentance and faith in the coming one, and they wanted to know what would exemplify for them true repentance. It's found in Luke chapter 3, the passage to which I'm referring, I believe it's Luke chapter 3, yes. John the Baptist is preaching, and we read in verse 8, bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, we have Abraham to our father, for I say unto you, God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Unless there is good fruit, there will be judgment. Now the multitudes begin to take this

24:16 seriously, and they say, what then must we do? In other words, in the light of this teaching, if we do not bring forth fruits, meet for repentance, we come under the judging acts of God, what must we do? And he said unto them, he that hath two coats, let it impart to him that hath none. He that hath food, let him do likewise. One of the general fruits of repentance is that there is a transformation from the disposition of self-centeredness to self-denial and concern for others. All right? And there came also publicans. Here's a specific class, those Jews who became tax collectors for the Roman government, and they came to be baptized, and they said, teacher, what must we do? That is not what must we do to be saved, but what must we do to bring forth fruits meet for

25:07 repentance? And he said unto them, dissociate yourselves from the Roman government and from taxes. No. He said, extort no more than that which is appointed you, putting his approval upon the Roman government's activity of demanding taxes of those whom they had conquered. That's very interesting, isn't it? If ever there was an opportunity to say that consistent biblical faith in life will call for the overthrow of any government that is unjustly committed to the Roman government, that is not what must we do to bring forth fruits meet for repentance, then he said, dissociate yourselves from the Roman government and from taxes in the name of Jesus Christ, because the Roman government is a salvation for those who allow themselves to be saved, and they are also the children of God, if not saints and not sinners, then they are also the children of God. And he said to them, we must bebew 비슷, then he said to the Jews, look, there are two windows which are open to you. That is the one we are different from. Again, it's two windows, and the first one, the second one, or the first one, and the last one, or the first one, and the last one, and the next one, and the last one, and the last one, the last one, and the last one, and the last one, the last one. And so the Security

26:00 Ministry was sent to the Jews when they were in their service. So they came to the Jews and they aggressive conquering nation and therefore it is inconsistent with profession of faith in jehovah and in the coming messiah to be found as a soldier in that relationship no such word soldiers asked him saying what must we do he said unto them extort from no man by violence don't use your position in the military unjustly neither accuse anyone wrongfully and military people apparently are always rumbling about their pay be content with your wages now this passage is not a secondary issue this falls on the threshold of the administration of the new covenant and john who is the forerunner of messiah gives no hint whatsoever of the principles espoused by the pacifism of the mennonite church now when we come on into the book of acts under explicit apostolic direction when the spirit of god falls upon cornelius who is a centurion in the roman under the roman government and his whole household and the holy ghost comes upon them the only thing peter commanded them to do was what acts chapter 10 after the holy ghost came what's the only thing he commanded him to do get baptized indicating that his coming into the visible church known he was a well-known centurion remember it says

27:24 he is famous among our nation for his deeds his arms to the people of god not a hint that people of god were not known to him he was not known by the people of god he was not known by the people of god the peter as an apostle inspired by the spirit of god peculiarly given to open the key of the church to the gentiles was in any way embarrassed to admit into the visible christian church in its foundation constitution a man who was a famous soldier and there's not a word that he must give up his occupation or change his occupation or that it was inconsistent with being a christian well you see those are some of the things some of the passages that must be reckoned with honestly. That's not exhaustive. There are other passages, but these are some of the major ones that come to my mind on my feet that have influenced my own thinking as I've wrestled with this because a Christian does have to wrestle with it. All right, yes, Phil?

28:23 Oh, yes, he said that he had not found such faith in all of Israel. So, because true faith doesn't exist apart from repentance where it's saving faith, not merely miraculous faith, there would be another passage that would be thrown into the hopper of what we're dealing with here. Yes, all right?

Limits of Submission and the Power of Implicit Argumentation

29:07 All the way to the point where the government clearly demands something that is explicitly contrary to the word of God. If the government comes at the gunpoint and says that I must violate the seventh commandment or the sixth commandment or something else, then at that point I must be prepared as Paul was. He said, if I have done wrong, I refuse not to die.

29:36 If I've done wrong, but existing within the framework of the Roman government, I refuse to be condemned to death by a kangaroo court set up in Jerusalem by people who are going to act contrary to the framework of the Roman government. So he said, I appeal to Caesar. And then he says, if I've done that which is worthy of death, I refuse not to die. Now, here again, that's another passage that fits into the general framework.

30:00 You see, much of the material, in the New Testament, with respect to this question, is not explicit. Romans 13 is perhaps more explicit, 1 Peter 2, but there are these implicit passages which often are more powerful in their argumentation because an assumption often is a more powerful argument than something that is proven. There is an assumed framework and in answer to the so-called Christian pacifist, I would say the assumed framework of the New Testament is that there is nothing inherently evil in military service even in a pagan government. And the burden of proof rests upon those who take the contrary position to exegete the passages that we've considered in the past few minutes.

30:42 And I would not want to be in their position and try to handle those passages honestly. All right? Yes.

Wisdom for Unforeseen Situations and Personal Conviction

31:00 Now, I think we're getting now into questions that we could carry them on ad infinitum. And I would not be prepared to say what I would do in that given situation because I'm not in it. And all I know about that is that I'm not in it. And all I know about that is that I'm not in it.

31:13 And all I know about that is that I'm not in it. And all I know about that is that I'm not in it. And all I know about that situation is what I get through the media. Which means I really don't know the situation.

31:19 No, I'm serious. I'm not being cheeky or being sarcastic. As I told you when I came back from South Africa, if all you know about South Africa is what you read in the papers, you don't know the situation in South Africa.

31:33 You get a completely distorted view. In two weeks, just observing and listening and moving amongst people in the major cities of that country have confirmed me and my conviction if all you know about a situation is what you get through the media, you don't know the situation. And because the scripture says judge righteous judgment, he that makes a judgment on a matter before he hears it, it is accounted unto him folly. In that given situation, the Christian has the promises of God.

32:01 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God. And in any situation, the believer has God's promises that if he's determined to be obedient to the Lord in the outworkings of the tensions of various lines of biblical practice, principles, God will give him wisdom to resolve that situation according to the principles of the word of God. It's like the question, would I lie if someone came to my house and forcefully tried to abuse my wife and my children? Is there ever justification for a lie?

32:34 Some of those questions, you can carry them on. It ends up like the questions how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. But in the given situation, the Christian whose conscience is continually being honed by the word of God can cry to God for the wisdom needed to apply the biblical principles in that given circumstance in the confidence that God will both give him wisdom and grace. It's like someone asking the question, do you believe you could take being tortured for Christ for ten years in the prison?

33:05 Well, that's an academic question. I'm not in a prison. I'm not being tortured. But I do know that I have promises that the Lord will not suffer me to be tempted above that I am able.

33:14 I do know he has a word of promise. My grace is sufficient for thee. My God shall supply all your need. And I think it's academic to discuss something that is not my present situation.

33:26 So I think with regard to this question as well, we could think of all kinds of situations. What should a Christian have done under the Nazi government and all the rest? Well, how do you know? You weren't in that situation.

33:39 All you know is what historians have passed on to you. And in a sense, you don't know the real situation. You and I can theorize. But you don't know the real situation.

33:52 And I should add, for someone who may not be aware of it, I'm not just speaking theoretically. When that announcement went out about all 19 to 21 year olds registering in the light of the eventuality of the draft, I was in favor of that proposition and I have a 19 year old son. So I'm not whistling Dixie on this issue. I think I've put my hand, as it were, where my mouth is.

34:17 And if we do not have an army that is credible in giving defense to our country, we shall continue to see what we have seen in terms of the pattern of international diplomacy and international activity over the past 10 years, which is frightening for the free world. And I don't say that as a rabid right winger. You people know who are here. I say this particularly for the sake of visitors, that there is as much in right wing politics that says, stands under the judgment of God as there is in left wing politics.

34:51 All humanism, left or right or center, stands under the judgment of God. And the Christian church stands outside of the full spectrum of political thought and can have a prophetic utterance to the whole spectrum, wherever it deviates from biblical principles. It can speak to that issue with prophetic authority and with prophetic power. For instance, someone was telling me recently that, some time ago, and they are quite active in the Right to Life movement, they heard one of the past leaders, I guess, of the New Jersey chapter of the Right to Life, make the statement that we pro-lifers, we're for life in the womb and out of the womb.

35:34 And this individual went on to say he did not see how any pro-lifer could consistently encourage capital punishment. If you're for life in the womb, you're for life out of the womb. If you're against abortion, you ought with equal zeal to be against capital punishment. Well, that's sheer humanism.

35:50 The Word of God says, Whoso sheddeth man's blood by man shall his blood be shed. And capital punishment for murder is a clear mandate of the Word of God. So you see, if anyone as a Christian identifies himself with any movement that does not derive its perspectives out of the Word of God, he can only go so far in that identification because sooner or later, the humanism that is woven through the fabric of it will manifest itself. And if you've seen so identified yourself and sold yourself to it, you've lost the right to speak to it with biblical authority and bring to bear upon it and its conscience the teaching of the Scriptures.

Addressing Presuppositions of Pacifism and Moral Insanity

36:30 Yes, Louise? Yeah. Well, I think the first principle is, and this is getting it down to the practical level, don't attack the issue directly. In other words, if someone takes that particular position, it's because they have certain presuppositions generally.

37:10 And it's these presuppositions which give birth to and support that position. Generally speaking, now this would not be true of our Mennonite friends, but generally speaking, those who, and it's a terrible contradiction, but it's just a fact, those who are against, quote, the industrial military complex and want to see no draft in a dismantling of our arms and our army and everything else, are the ones who are most militant for abortion on demand.

37:45 You talk about God giving people up to the folly. That, to me, is the height of it. That's the absolute height of it. It's all right to take unprotected, innocent life inside the womb and clinically kill it with government-subsidized funds.

38:02 That's all right. But don't go out and take butchers and murderers who are committed to destroying all the dignity of human life as reflective of the image of God, all human liberty and bringing people into political bondage and treating them as mere animals to be herded into a Marxist, socio-political perspective. And it's wrong to have an army to defend ourselves from that or to stop that aggression. Frankly, to me, nothing but the judgment of God in giving people up to moral insanity can answer why people think that way.

38:40 Well, the presuppositions, you see, grow out of a humanistic view of life. They do not believe, for the most part, the way such people do not believe in the inherent sinfulness of man. Death is an abnormality. Cancer is an abnormality.

38:55 War is an abnormality. But an abnormality that grows out of the reality of sin. And all of those abnormalities are going to exist until sin is no more, which will not be until the new heavens and the new earth. So in dealing with people, generally it's best not to come at the position they hold directly.

39:15 But to try to get at some of the presuppositions. Maybe to say to such a person, well, look, let's just suspend the question of whether or not there ought to be a draft. May I ask you a question? And then you just ask the person, say, do you believe man is inherently good?

39:31 Or does he have a basic bent to that which is evil? Where does murder come from? Where does aggression come from? Well, generally speaking, you'll find that people are totally ignorant of the biblical doctrine of human depravity.

39:45 Well, now you have an opportunity to start a basis of presenting the gospel, which is your real concern. You're not just indifferent to their question, but knowing what the real problem is as a wise physician. When the patient comes all convinced that he's diagnosed his problem, a wise doctor doesn't treat him in terms of the self-diagnosis of the patient. Having better and more extensive knowledge of what the patient's needs may be, he then goes to work on what the real need is.

40:16 Well, in the same way, we need to be wise physicians of souls. Be wise as serpents, harmless as doves in seeking to address ourselves to these issues. Does that give you at least a practical and concrete suggestion? Yes.

The Hyde Amendment, Discrimination, and Anti-Authoritarianism

40:31 Paul?

40:58 Yeah. Well, I think for one thing we can be grateful. I think it was an answer to the prayers of God's people that the Hyde Amendment was upheld by the Supreme Court by a five to four vote. I don't know if you're all aware of that.

41:09 And the Hyde Amendment is the amendment which says that the government is not under obligation to fund abortion upon demand. Now, the woolly-headed thinking again cries out, that's discrimination against the poor women that want abortions. That's like saying every murderer that wants to kill if he can't afford a gun, give him the money, or that's discrimination against poor killers.

41:33 There is no difference whatsoever.

41:37 The hit men for the mafia have enough money to buy illegal guns to carry out their hits.

41:44 Now, the poor man in the ghetto who is a hitman who is angry and wants to kill may not have the money to kill. By that logic, give him government subsidized funds to buy his gun so that he may kill or you're discriminating against him. And I defy anyone to say that that's an illogical parallel. It is not.

42:03 It is a perfectly logical parallel. In the providence of God, some women have enough to kill in a clinical, sterile, expensive situation. And our government allows them to do so. Now, that's evil.

42:19 But it's adding evil to evil to put that same power in the hands of the poor.

42:25 That's discrimination. Well, if it is, it's discrimination in the interest of checking evil.

42:34 I'm not asking answering questions. I'm preaching now, but I'm sorry. These things, some of you are glad, I know, because you wonder why I don't preach more on the issue of abortion. Well, I don't want to ride a hobby, but I'm glad it's come up today.

42:48 Yes, it's... All right.

42:50 The bud?

43:14 Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing to me again, all those that scream the loudest about the injustice of our presence in Vietnam, how silent they've been about the slaying, literally, and this can be documented, of millions of Cambodians, Vietnamese, and the brutal, heartless relocation, the emptying of the cities, the herding of people like animals into collective farm systems. As I've read some of the accounts not by Christians, not by right-wing politicians, but by ordinary news reporters, it has been absolutely unbelievable. And I wonder, where's all the cry? We don't hear it. Where's Jane Fonda up on her platform calling them to civil justice over there in Southeast Asia now?

44:19 Well, it's some of the... You see, the terrible inconsistency and the very issue that I think we come back to, Mark, I mean, Paul, is that if I understand the scriptures rightly, it is only when the government, just as in the government of the church, it is only when elders seek to administer principles or policies that are patently unscriptural that you have both the right and the responsibility to oppose them.

44:49 But when it's a matter of private judgment, God calls us to submission the same way He calls children to submit to their parents. He doesn't say if you in every point are convinced that their judgment is right. It is only at the point where their directions are patently unscriptural that a child is to oppose his parents, that a member of a church is to oppose his elders, that a citizen is to oppose his government. And to me, as a Christian, the great tragedy of the anti-war movement of the 60s was here were young squirts in their early 20s who didn't know nothing about nothing except how to get high on their drugs and how to follow the latest profit of political liberalism and humanism telling our government how to run its own business.

45:44 I think some may call this bragging, but I don't think it's bragging. When people ask me in the midst of that thing, I said, I don't know enough to make valid judgments, let alone to start making public pronouncements. What do I know about what goes on between the hotline between Washington and Moscow? What do I know of the intrigue of international politics?

46:08 What do I know about those things? Who in the world am I to be making pompous judgments when I'm so ignorant of facts? And it used to amaze me at the arrogance of the ignorance of those involved in the anti-war movement. I never said it at the time because I didn't want to alienate anyone in that particular framework.

46:30 Want their ears for the gospel? But I think after the fact, looking back now, this may be a proper place to say it because some of us may be faced with judgments and we must have our consciences honed by the principle that unless the government is commanding us to do something that is clearly unscriptural,

46:50 we have no right to resist the directions given to us by our government, Romans 13. Yes, Paul?

47:13 Yes, I do. If you're asking the question, do I feel a Christian? Yes, I do. But to refuse to pay taxes because a certain amount, suppose the Hyde Amendment had not been upheld, a certain amount of government funds was going to fund two to three hundred thousand abortions for the poor every year.

47:30 I would say I do not believe that that is sufficient grounds to refuse submission to the government because the government has been involved for years in the expenditure of my tax money and yours in ways that I seriously question. They would spend it if they were operating by biblical principles.

47:48 But at the time, Paul said, and this is where we've got to come back to the New Testament in terms of explicit directives, when Paul said the powers that be are ordained of God, he was writing an epistle to the church at where? At Rome. Was Rome a Christian government?

48:08 I mean, that to me is, we've got to reckon with that. Pastor Nichols is bursting at the seams to say something. Yes.

48:24 Go ahead. Bring it up a little more volume, I think. I have to say, well, I agree with you that there are so many percent that they want to know you. I'm clear about that.

48:51 Crass individualism. Crass individualism.

49:21 Yeah. I think that's a very vital point. We live in a pervasively anti-authoritarian climate. And the scripture makes clear that whenever common grace is withheld, this is always one of the manifestations.

49:37 Remember Romans 1? Amidst all of those sins of the heathen nations that Paul lists. Many of them. Well, let's just look at them quickly.

49:45 We have just about two minutes. My watch was checked with the clock time this morning. That one's a little bit fast, so I'll go by my watch.

49:55 Notice in Romans chapter 1 when Paul is describing the aggravated sins of those who've been given over in this judicial act of God to their sins. Verse 29. Verse 28. As they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind to do those things that are not fitting, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, whispers, backed by a man who is not fit for God.

50:25 Haters, haters of God or hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents. Isn't that interesting? He reckons as an indication of God's judicial activity in giving men up to hardness of heart that they will not recognize this structure of the family and be submissive to it. Disobedient to parents, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful, and you find a similar point of emphasis in 1 Timothy chapter 4.

51:04 I'm sorry, 2 Timothy chapter 3. But know this, that in the last days, not just the last of the last days, but in the last days which extend from the coming of Christ, the first advent to the second, grievous times shall come. And the more grievous they are, the more there is a withdrawal of common grace, the more these things will be manifested. Men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, railers, disobedient to parents.

51:38 Verse 4, traitors, headstrong, puffed up. You see those very characteristics we see on every hand. And it should be a call to us to cry to God that He bless the proclamation of His Word and it's only a pervasive application of the gospel. A gospel with power to the hearts of men that's going to change that climate.

Dual Citizenship and the Christian's Role in Two Kingdoms

52:02 Because when a man or a woman has embraced the government of God in Jesus Christ, he is now prepared to embrace the other structures of government which God has instituted in the home, in society, and in the church. Yes, last word, Pastor Lewis. We do not cease to be of the earthly life. We do not cease the existence of the United States because we become citizens of the people of God. We are citizens of two countries and of two worlds. And I think you have to consider that fact to be the most just question because we exist in these two kingdoms, in these two realms, and in the second one.

53:07 And the one simply does cancel out the other. It seems that the error of the end of baptism is to make that very assertion that the one cancels out your obligation to receive. Yes, what I'm to be here as part of the people of God negates what I am to be here. Then you have the question, what is the principle of self-defense that grows out of the system?

53:29 It's wrong to murder, but it's not wrong to defend yourself. Particularly in the realms in the creative world, the civil government, the citizens, the pastors, the people of the church, the respect that you found in John, chapter 19, where Jesus is speaking before the fourth conscious child. He says, answering him in verse 36, the child says, Am I a Jew, a lone nation, and a king, a priest, a ruler, a beauty? What have you done?

54:01 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then would my service be fine? Yes, 1836. If you're looking at 19, it's 18, you said 19, 18.

54:15 All right, that's all right. If my kingdom were of this world, then would my service be fine? I should be delivered from it. Minus monetically if it were, then war against the Jews.

54:46 Yeah.

54:49 But it doesn't mean that that kingdom does not exist in the government of God in the world. And if my word that kind of thing? Yes. And the child of God is often called upon to exist within the two kingdoms and to fight as a member of this kingdom while seeking to conduct himself as a member of this kingdom consistent with the rules and principles of it.

55:20 Well, that's right. Yeah. Well, our hour has gone, so we must commit our thoughts to God and let's pray together. Our Father, we thank you for this very practical issue that has engaged our minds in this past hour.

55:40 We do confess to you our native ignorance. We do confess to you our native bias to that which gratifies self and opposes you. And we pray, therefore, that by an operation of the Holy Spirit through the scriptures, our every thought may be brought captive to the obedience of Christ. If any of the statements we have made in this hour are not true to your word, grant that in the spirit of those Bereans who search the scriptures, each of us may, in the court of his own conscience before you, come to clear convictions with respect to the teaching of your word.

56:22 And where your word cuts across the grain of previously held opinion and attitude, we pray that your word may discipline and deal with both opinion and attitude, that we may be a people who walk by the rule of scripture in every facet of our lives. Hear us and receive our thanks for this hour together, we ask through our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. We're dismissed.