Jacob's Wrestling and our Prayers (SS Open Forum)

Introduction to the Open Forum and Guidelines

0:03 It's amazing, is it not, to meet those whom we have never met in the flesh before and in 30 seconds sense that there are bonds deeper than even the ties that knit us by common bloodlines to our own earthly brothers and sisters. And I guess my mind is particularly filled with that thought in the light of the exposition of the next hour in which Paul refers to Epaphroditus supremely as his brother. And the amazing thing that's involved in that designation from a proud, narrow-minded, bigoted Jew who would have spat at the very name Epaphroditus, a Gentile dog named after a heathen goddess,

0:48 and now he says, our brother. And that's what the grace of God does, and we are grateful for every reminder of the work of God's grace, not only in bringing us into fellowship with the trying God, but into communion. Into communion with his people. Now I notice that there are, again this morning, not a few visitors amongst us, and so a word of explanation is in order with respect to how we're conducting the class this morning.

1:16 In the light of our Lord's instruction in Matthew 28, that we are to make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them and then teaching them all things that he has commanded us, this adult class is given over to a teaching, a ministry, and for the majority of the time, we have been taken up for the past few years with an in-depth study of the New Testament. And Professor Garlington, on the staff of the Trinity Ministerial Academy, is generally the teacher, and if he were teaching this morning and not on holiday, or as we say, vacation, he would be instructing us from the latter chapters of 2 Corinthians. But in the past two Lord's Days,

2:00 or during the past two Lord's Day mornings, in this class period, we've had an open-ended discussion in which we've entertained questions of a practical nature from you as the people of God. Now, the guidelines are very simple. The teacher, or the catalyst, whatever I am in this thing, for discussion, remains or retains the right to make a judgment as to whether or not the question proposed would be under general edification. And since we are under the mandate of Scripture, that all things be done unto edification, a judgment must be made as to whether a given question in its unfolding would be to general edification.

2:44 And then secondly, we remind particularly our visitors, not knowing the backgrounds out of which you may come, this is not an open invitation to debate. We are committed as a church to a doctrinal position. We are a confessional church, and there are certain things that are not matters of debate amongst us. They are matters of deep, and I trust, intelligent religious conviction.

3:11 And then thirdly, we do encourage your contributions rather than my simply responding to the questions as the answer man. I do try to draw forth from you the biblical principles and texts and illustrations which address themselves to the question. Let us then ask God's blessing on our time together as we seek. To take up what I'm sure are some concerns that some of you have already previously considered, knowing the class will be conducted this way, let's ask for the guidance and help of the Holy Spirit.

Opening Prayer for Guidance

3:48 Our Father, we are indeed grateful again that we meet this morning without fear, that someone will come and intrude into our class session and violently take us away from this place and bar the doors of this auditorium that we bless you for our civil liberties. We thank you that we have the scriptures in our own language. We thank you that all of us are able to read. We thank you that we have so many blessings denied to the multitudes upon the face of the earth this very day.

4:29 We thank you that you have given us the Holy Spirit. We pray that the Spirit and the Word will indeed be our inspiration and our instructors this morning. Bless our time together. Guide us in the questions proposed.

4:43 Guide us as we seek to bring the scriptures to bear upon those questions that all of us may be edified and strengthened in our faith and Christian experience as a result of these minutes together. Bless us then as we cry to you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. Now, we gave preference to the, right side of the auditorium last week and the first week and then the left side last week.

George's Question: Jacob's Wrestling and Coercing God

5:15 So now this morning we'll show no preference. Whoever has a question may raise his hand and we'll seek to entertain that question. Yes, George?

5:24 Very comprehensive that our question

6:31 that our brother George has raised. I'm sure you gave some thought to that throughout the week, George.

6:38 Ah? You didn't shoot that off the top of your head, did you? We can talk about that later. All right?

6:43 Now, George? George's question. My question is that the term is used frequently in public teaching and preaching that we must not regard prayer as some kind of a spiritual exercise in which we get God in a hammerlock. That is, we get his arm locked behind and we twist him up until God says, Uncle, and gives us what we ask.

7:06 And that's the view that some people have of prayer, that somehow prayer can coerce God to give us what otherwise he would be reluctant to give us. Now, George says, in the light of Jacob's wrestling with the angel, not in conjunction with the vision of the ladder, I think it had a couple of incidents overlapping, George, but at the Brook Jabbok, and it's referred to in Genesis chapter 32. Genesis chapter 32.

Exposition of Jacob's Wrestling (Genesis 32)

7:41 We have this incident beginning in verse 22.

7:45 And he rose up that night, that is, Jacob, and took his two wives and his two handmaids, and his eleven children, and passed over the ford of the Jabbok. And he took them and sent them over the stream and sent over that which he had. And Jacob was left alone, and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh, that is, the man wrestling with Jacob touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh, and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was strained, as he wrestled with him.

8:24 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaks. And he said, that is, Jacob said to the angels, Ah, angel, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob, that is, deceiver or supplanter.

8:43 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel, that is, you notice in the margin, he who strives, with God, or God strives, for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob asked him, and he said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that you ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

9:12 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is, preserved. Now, I think, if I understand rightly, George, your question arises from the fact that there seems to be something akin to what we speak of in the derogatory sense of thinking that we get God in a hammerlock. Now, is that the case? Was there a reluctance on the part of this strange visitor who was obviously not an ordinary man, or even an ordinary or mere angel?

9:52 This was a manifestation, a manifestation of God himself in the person of the angel of the Lord. Many believe pre-incarnate manifestations of Christ, the eternal word, but obviously he is one who can give blessing upon Jacob. And as Jacob wrestles with him, there seems to be a reluctance on the part of this strange visitor. He says, Let me go.

10:23 And Jacob says, No, I won't, until you, bless me, and wrestles with him, and prevails. Now, is this a case of someone who is overcoming reluctance in God by virtue of persistence in prayer? And if you're prepared to answer, be prepared to support your answer with Scripture.

Jacob's Unique Place in God's Purpose and Promise

10:46 Let me give you a little clue. Who was Jacob? In the purpose of God, where did Jacob stand?

11:01 Was he just an ordinary, what would say, an ordinary Christian? All right, David? David has made the point he already had the birthright, and he already had the promise of God that God's covenant engagements with his people would be carried on in a unique way.

11:33 Jacob. So he had the promise of God with respect to his unique place in the history of redemption. Now, you see, an important principle, whenever we look at an incident in Scripture, we must seek to relate that incident to what?

11:51 Anyone?

11:53 Not only the immediate surrounding, the immediate context, but the larger context of where does this person fit into the plan and purpose of God. Again, you've heard it often said in this place that the Old Testament is not a collection of little interesting historical snippets with a few moral lessons interspersed. It is the history of what God is doing to accomplish, his own redemptive designs. And we have that initial promise in Genesis 3.15

12:26 that God would establish this enmity between the seed of the woman and between the seed of the serpent and flowing out of that germ, as it were, that seed of gospel promise, we see the purposes of God coming in a peculiar way to terminate upon Jacob. So with respect to Jacob's unique place in the purpose of God, the unique promise is given to him, was Jacob asking for something for which he had no promise or warrant from God, or was he pleading for something that God had already intimated it was his will to give him? Which was? All right, obviously the latter.

13:12 That if the promise of God was to be fulfilled through Jacob, it was to be fulfilled as he became, under the blessing of God, the man that God intended he should be. So when Jacob is asking for the blessing, he's not asking for something to consume upon his own lust. James chapter 4, he had not because he asked not, he asked and received not that you may consume it upon your lust, but he is asking in terms of the framework of the promise and purpose of God already revealed to him.

The Reality of Jacob's Wrestling and God's Testing

13:47 Does that satisfy you, George? All right, but now then, let me go on further and ask this question. Was his wrestling real? Or is this just, some kind of a charade?

14:01 Was his desire real that God would bless him? Was his wrestling real?

14:09 All right, Bob, that's right. He is scared to death. And he's even made some pretty wise plans to split up the household to make sure if Esau comes with fire in his eye and a sword in his hand, he won't wipe them all out in one shot. He'll have to get them in two installments.

14:38 That's right. He's scared out of his boots. All right, so this was no, this was no fake wrestling with God. He was in a real crisis, all right?

14:47 What about God's dealings with him? Was God playing games with him when he seemed to desire to withdraw before he blessed him?

14:58 What was God doing?

15:02 Yes, God?

15:16 Can you think of an incident in the New Testament where Jesus did something similar to this?

15:25 All right, the Syrophoenician woman, give us just the smattering of the details of that.

15:43 Children's bread.

15:51 And he blessed her because of her what? Oh, woman. Woman, great is thy faith. So here our Lord was testing, purifying, drawing out that expression of faith.

16:02 Can you think of another incident in which it says our Lord made as though he would leave them? Past Bible.

16:14 All right, in the road to Emmaus, in Luke chapter 24, you have an incident, 28. And they drew near unto the village whither they were going, and he said, He made as though he would go further. And they constrained him, saying, Abide with us, for it is toward evening in the days now far spent. And you remember that it was then in the context of that intimate association with Christ, which from the human standpoint was the result of their insistence that he remain with them, that they had this revelation of Christ

16:57 in his resurrection manifestation. To them. So that we don't have God playing games, but what do we have? In the interaction between Jacob and God, what do we have?

Reconciling Divine Sovereignty and Real Prayer

17:12 In this incident in Genesis 32. And it's true of all of God's dealings with his people.

17:21 Did God know that he had purpose to bless Jacob in this way? Yes or no?

17:28 Had God sovereignly decreed to bless him?

17:33 Yes or no? Had God sovereignly decreed to bless him apart from Jacob's wrestling? Yes or no?

17:43 No. Did I hear some hypers say yes? No. Everyone said no.

17:50 That's right. The same God who had decreed to bless Jacob, the same God who had decreed to bless him on that occasion, had decreed to bless him in the context of Jacob's wrestling for the very blessing God had decreed to give him. Now that's the great stumbling block. of the biblical doctrines of God's decrees and the reality and the validity of the means by which those decrees come to pass in the life experience of God's people.

18:25 And left to ourselves, we'll do one of two things. We'll say if prayer is a real interaction between a real, living, sensitive, loving, caring, responding God and a real, needy, clean, believing child of God, then God cannot be the God whose purposes and plans are all fixed by eternal decree.

18:50 And then others say, well, since the Bible is so clear that known unto God are all his works from the beginning and he works all things after the counsel of his will, he does according to his will in the armies of heaven and the inhabitants of the earth and none can stay his hand and say unto him, what doest thou? If God is truly sovereign and if God is truly sovereign, if God has decreed everything from eternity and his decrees are fixed, then prayer can't be the real interaction between a real, sensitive, loving, caring, responding God and a real, needy, pleading child of God. So left to ourselves, when we confront those two parallel revelations of God,

19:35 we will either opt to take God off his throne to preserve what we think is the validity of prayer or we will so put God on his throne and think we need to preserve his throne as to destroy did I reverse it? Yeah. Yeah. Did I mix it up?

19:56 No. All right. Okay. Sometimes my head gets ahead of my tongue.

20:00 And we'll destroy then the reality of prayer. If God is enthroned, prayer is not real. If prayer is real, God is not enthroned. And so you have most segments of the Christian church divided right down.

20:15 It's a little on that issue. And though we may theoretically deny that, practically we're continually pulled to one extreme or the other. And it's only the grace of the Spirit of God working in us that can help us to hold those realities so that we both acknowledge with joy the enthronement of God and engage with fervency in the activity of prayer. Yes, Pastor Dixon.

Biblical Illustrations of Prayer for Decreed Events

20:42 All right.

20:51 Excellent illustration from Scripture. Daniel said that he understood from reading the prophecy of Jeremiah that the captivity in Babylon would last for 70 years or the captivity would last 70 years. And he said, understanding that, he said, I set myself to seek the Lord by prayer and fasting. Well, wait a minute.

21:13 If God prophesied and His Word cannot fail, though heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle will pass. Shouldn't Daniel have just danced a pig and said, glory, hallelujah, God's on His throne, the 70 years is up, boys, let's pack up and get ready to go home? But he didn't do that. He set himself to seek the Lord.

21:36 And he began to pray for the very thing God had decreed to bring to pass. That's the point that I think Pastor Dixon is making with respect to Daniel. All right? Can you think of some other illustrations of this?

21:50 Yes, Jim?

21:56 All right.

21:59 Luke 11 and verse 5. The Lord goes on from that parable

22:43 to draw this conclusion, and I say unto you, ask, and it shall be given you. Seek, and ye shall find. Knock, and it shall be opened unto you. And the context indicates that it is not an asking casually or even once.

23:01 And if I remember correctly, I believe these are present verbs. Keep on asking. Keep on seeking. Keep on knocking.

23:10 And in the context, we see that parallel. The friend came. He knocked. He got no response.

23:16 He didn't say, oh, well, it must not be the will of my friend to give me anything or maybe he doesn't have anything. I'll try somewhere else. He knocked again until he awakened his friend. And he yelled out and said, hey, man, go home.

23:27 It's late. My kids are with me in bed. I'll wake them all up if I haven't already awakened them yelling to you. Now, go away.

23:33 Leave me alone. He kept right on pounding on the door until finally he said, this character's so insistent, I'd better get up and give him what he needs to get him off my back. He doesn't arise. That hour of night, friendship, it doesn't cut much mustard.

23:49 He doesn't say, oh, the voice of my beloved out at the door. Isn't that wonderful? No, no. No, no.

23:56 Passage says, though he will not rise and give him because he is his friend. There's a verse in Proverbs that speaks about what happens to friends who holler too early in the morning and bless their brethren too early in the morning that it'd be counted a curse to him. You go by your friend's house at six in the morning and say, brother, I've been praying for you and I bless you in the name of the Lord. Well, that's a good way to destroy a friendship and the writer to Proverbs says that and there's a man sitting there whose face is red because I know when he passes a certain home in the morning he yells out when some of the people are still sleeping.

24:33 At least that was told to me in a pastoral visit recently and I won't look in any given direction.

24:39 But you see the point of this passage that it isn't the friendship but it was that importunity, that shameless insistence that became from the standpoint of the one who had a need. The basis or the catalyst, the thing that caused him to realize the provision of that need and he arose and gave him as much as he needed. All right, any other illustrations from Scripture? Someone else had a hand.

25:08 Yes, John and then over to you, Ken. A very clear example from the Old Testament and then buttressed by a New Testament reference. Remember for over three years there had been no rain, the heavens had been shut up, there was one who said,

25:53 Elijah shut up the heavens and put the key in his pocket and then walked off. There shall be no dune or rain but according to my word. And then God said that there's going to be abundance of rain and yet the prophet did not simply sit back and say, oh well, there'll be rain. But he prayed and sought the face of God and James then picks it up and says, Elijah was a man of like passions with us and he prayed and God then gave rain.

26:22 A very good example from the Old Testament with that buttressing comment from the New Testament. All right, Ken? All right, so here we have another example of the divine promise and intimation

27:07 of divine purpose and rather than being the negation of the necessity of prayer, it forms the basis upon which we do pray. That's the point you're making from the passage. Good. All right?

27:21 Yes, Arlene? Christ himself, our blessed Lord himself, again as one has said, subjected himself to the law of his own kingdom which is Psalm 2, ask of me and I will give thee the nations for thine inheritance and the uttermost part of the earth for thy possession. And Arlene has made reference to John 17 where the very things that our Lord was commissioned to do as the appointed mediator of sinners, he pleads with God for those things to come to pass. So even our Lord, and we see this particularly

28:06 in the writings of Luke, is eminently a man of prayer. What he received as the perfect man, he received as we receive those things. He received them in the posture of dependantness. He received them as he asked them of his Father.

28:27 And so supremely our Lord himself is the great example of prayerfulness of prayerfulness. And not a posture of presumption that because God had purposed and decreed something it would automatically come to pass. Someone else have a hand raised for the passage or principle from scripture to bring to bear upon us? Yes, Dean?

The Persistent Widow and Prayer for Daily Bread

28:48 Alright. Alright. In Luke 18 we have a similar passage. The focal point of emphasis is a bit different but the principle is nonetheless the same.

29:03 Luke chapter 18 our Lord gives the example of a judge who has no common grace. No special grace, no common grace. He has no regard or fear of God which anyone administering justice ought to have. And he has no sympathy or concern for human beings which a judge ought to have.

29:28 Verse 2 of Luke 18 there was a judge who did not fear God and did not regard man. And there's a widow who has been wronged. And so apparently in an unofficial way or whether sitting upon his bench I do not know but she plagued him with her request that he would interpose on behalf of someone who had wronged her. Avenge me of mine adversary.

29:54 He would not for a while but afterward he said within himself though I don't fear God nor regard man yet because this widow troubles me I will avenge her lest she wear me out or literally lest she bruise me by her continual coming and the Lord said hear what the unrighteous judge says and shall not God avenge his elect those whom he loves with distinguishing and everlasting love that cry to him day and night. But there is no promise that he will avenge them if they do not cry. Though they are his elect he will avenge them as they are. He will avenge them

30:38 as they cry to him day and night. Well George has that given you sufficient biblical perspective on that question? Alright now if we can just relate it to the more specific thing that you raised what about the matter of asking for our daily bread with respect to our basic necessities of life? Well what we commonly call the Lord's Prayer I think in part answers the question if Jesus said after this manner pray ye then it is the will of God that we should make as a matter of regular prayer the supply of our basic temporal needs.

God's Provision and the Reality of Suffering

31:19 But now in doing so what must be our attitude? Does God always supply the temporal needs of his people?

31:28 Yes or no? Will a child of God ever be hungry?

31:35 How do we know that?

31:41 Yes, Ed. Those who did not bow the knee and we know of some of those who were hidden in the cave and they were fed a very meager fare although they were fed something. Yes, Louise?

32:04 Our Lord was hungry. We read that he fasted which was a voluntary hunger. I don't know do we know of any incident where it said that he was hungry not by voluntary fasting though?

32:17 I can't think of an incident in the Gospels. Can you think of one?

32:23 Yes.

32:29 And there was none. All right. There's at least all right. Good point, Pastor Clark has made.

32:35 It says when he came to that fig tree he was an hungered and there was no fruit upon it. Now there may have been one next to it but there's no record that there was one with some gleanings next to it. But certainly there are some incidents in Scripture. Can you think of some where we have no reason to believe it was through lack of industriousness or because of a chastisement for unconfessed sin that an eminent servant of God went hungry?

33:02 Yes. Rich? All right. They had that poisoned food and Elijah had to perform a miracle to make it edible.

33:24 All right. Someone else? Yes. Paul?

33:27 All right. All right. Lazarus and the rich man. Luke 16.

33:31 Here is a clear example of someone who lived and died in abject poverty. He was a beggar. A beggar. Luke chapter 16 verse 19.

33:44 There was a certain rich man was clothed in preciousness purple and fine linen. Verse 20. A certain beggar named Lazarus was laid at his gate full of sores and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table. Yea, even the dogs came and licked his sores and it came to pass that the beggar died.

34:07 And though the Scripture does not say it it could well be that he even died of hunger. Yes. Greg? All right.

34:17 All right. Philippians chapter 4. All right. Do you want to read those verses for us, please?

34:24 To be based also to abound in everything and in all things have I learned the secret both to be filled both to abound and to be in one and to do all things that strengthens me. And then in Corinthians chapter 11 when he outlines the afflictions that he has endured as an apostle of Christ 25. Three times I was beaten with rods once I was stoned. Three times I was beaten I suffered shipwreck

35:08 the night and the day I was in the deep. Often in journeys and perils of rivers and perils of robbers and perils from my countrymen and perils from the Gentiles and perils in the city and perils from the wilderness and perils from the sea and perils among the false brethren in labor and travail and watchings off in hunger and thirst and fastings and cold and nakedness.

35:32 All right. Now here we have set in a very clear succession of disciples descriptions of his difficulties there were fastings yes that would be voluntary relinquishment of the normal intake of food but in addition to fasting there was hunger and there was thirst.

35:55 All right. Now if our Lord has taught us to pray for our daily bread and if the scriptures tell us that God will supply all of our need how do we reconcile this apparent discrepancy between what God actually does with some of his children as recorded in scripture and certainly in the subsequent history of the church and these general promises?

The Purpose of Suffering and Critique of the Prosperity Gospel

36:21 Bob? Our soul is in more discrimination than order that our soul might be fed has to go through hunger in order to see what he's caring for. Mm-hmm. All right.

36:43 Any other purposes or reasons why this condition may exist?

36:55 Yes, Charles? Yes. The whole incident of Job in which God is going to make it evident to principalities and powers to Satan himself that there is such a thing as serving God not for the blessings he brings upon us but cleaving to him for himself submitting to dark and strange providences. All right.

37:22 Some other purposes. Yes, David? All right. God seeks to create a classroom or a showcase to display the sufficientness and efficiency of his grace 2 Corinthians 12 and also in that passage by allowing Paul to feel the pressure of this physical affliction he was keeping him coming back to your principle from the sin of pride lest I should be exalted over much.

38:00 There was given this messenger of Satan this stake this thorn in the flesh so the principle that there is something more important in life than a full belly and a healthy body. Comes to the surface. Now what does that say with regard to the general emphasis of the modern charismatic movement?

38:23 What does it say? You tell me. Because if I get talking I'm liable to start preaching and I don't want to do that. What does it say?

38:31 That God always wants you healthy and happy the best clothes in your back the best food in your belly and all the rest. What does it say about that emphasis? Dean? God wants you well and for you to say that your will your will your will may be healed so it's unbelief because it's always the Lord's will that someone heals the people and that's how it is well.

38:57 And it's a totally distorted view of what God's purpose in redemption really is. He's purposed to conform us to the image of his son and that work now is primarily a work in the renewal of what? The outer or the inner man according to 2 Corinthians?

39:16 The inner not the outward though the outward man is the outer man is perishing the inward man is renewed day by day and you see their emphasis is how can you be a good testimony to the world? You go around with a gimpy back and you go around with wheezing lungs with asthma and you go around with some other evident matter what a poor testimony that is how can that speak of the goodness of God and of the power of Christ's salvation? When you go around with God filling your teeth for you even and all the other these wild claims and they make those claims oh yeah God fills the teeth you don't need to go to the dentist and plunk out your $40 God will fill your teeth if you just have enough faith I don't know how

40:01 he drills them out but he fills them with the best of materials the metallurgist can't figure out what it's made of all kinds of wild claims well see when you go around just bouncing with health and verb and all the rest then you're a wonderful testimony to the goodness of God well what's wrong with that?

40:41 Yes and what is part and parcel of the world experience? Affliction man is born into trouble as the sparks fly upward and remember the great teaching of 2 Corinthians 1 God who comforts us in all our affliction or tribulation why? In order that we may be able to comfort others by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God so there is something more important than our being quote a good testimony by being the picture of the most healthy person under the sun what about the person who amidst all of the affliction I saw something that moved me tremendously the other day I received a periodical from the UK in which there's a testimony of a 28 year old girl

41:26 who's only about so tall and she's strapped into what is really it looks like a baby stroller and she had spina bifida and two years ago she was brought to the knowledge of Christ and she gives her testimony thanking God that no one thought it their duty to let her die when she was born with spina bifida and then she went on to say how grateful she was that she could speak of the goodness of God 28 year old girl about so big and you talk about God being glorified and the triumph of grace in the midst of an unusually difficult circumstance that magnifies

42:11 the power of God's grace to put people's whole perspective into prophecy with regard to what is important in life yes Pastor Nichols so about that mentality is that it has latent within it all of the everything that you need to become a joke's comfort of the people of God when they go through suffering and affliction and they're not the picture of hell because if the only reason that you suffer the kind of the only reason that you suffer in your own life is because of some lack of faith and some sin on you apart and when you find out that the people of God are in these things then you become a joke's

42:55 comforter and what you do is you come to the people of God and then you accuse them you play the part of the devil in seeking to accuse and to say there must be something hypocritical about you there must be some secret wickedness with respect to you otherwise this affliction wouldn't be upon you otherwise this calamity wouldn't be upon you you must not have faith you must be lacking some basic thing and God's evidently punishing you for some sin yes that's right and furthermore they would say or if it's not some sin prior to the affliction it's the unbelief you have shown in the face of that affliction if only you'd believe hard enough

43:39 God would take it away yeah yes Pastor Clark yes could you all hear what Pastor Clark is saying that we're dying people we're actually deranged and deranged and derided upon their deathbeds that the only reason they were there is because of their unbelief if only they believed or not the Lord would have raised them up well we're going to get to that God willing in two weeks in Philippians 2 with Epaphroditus and I don't want to shoot my rod now but that's one of the most powerful passages and I commend it to you for your careful meditation in the days ahead he was sick

44:23 up to the very point of death and in the presence of an apostle he didn't get well he didn't get well he didn't get well he didn't get well until he said the Lord mercied him Paul uses a verbal form of the word mercy he had to pray and supplicate like any ordinary Christian the apostle Paul who had raised the dead couldn't help Epaphroditus God let him come right to death's door and then he did his day and then God delivered me from my unbelief so I could heal him he said God mercied him God sovereignly put forth his hand to raise him up yes brother

General Promises and Higher Goods in God's Plan

44:56 I'd hope someone would raise that question and I was surprised it hadn't come up till now alright read those verses for us alright alright here is the statement from the psalmist fear the Lord that is walk with that perspective in which God smiled is your greatest delight his frown your greatest dread fear the Lord his saints for

45:40 there is no lack no want no being short changed to those that fear him young lions do lack and suffer hunger but they that seek the Lord shall not lack any food any money no shall not lack any good thing now there to me is the heart of what is said who determines what is the highest good for God's children his children or God yes you're a parent are you not now who determines the highest good for your children your children or you have you ever denied them

46:25 what they thought was absolutely essential for their happiness but you knew was not in their best interest have you many times have we not and in our folly often as children we ask God for that which we're absolutely convinced is essential for our good 2nd Corinthians 12 Paul said for this cause I sought the Lord three times apparently referring to three intensive periods of prayer probably prayer joined with fasting because Paul said I cannot accomplish my ministry with this affliction Lord it is inconsistent with my good as a servant of Christ and until God broke through with a differing perspective Paul thought that good

47:10 equaled deliverance from that thorn in the flesh then the Lord said no my grace is sufficient there is a higher good that you're ignorant of at this point and that is keeping you in the humble posture in which alone I can use you therefore I will withhold the good of healing in order to secure the good of your humility my grace can take a physically weak man and make him powerful in the spirit but I resist the proud my grace will not work in a proud man so I'd rather have you physically afflicted and humble and in the midst of that weakness my power will be shown than physically virile and strong and physically proud and thereby

47:54 be unfit for my use so any of these promises must be taken in the light of that broader context that what is the good thing is ultimately determined not by our short sightedness but by God's perfect knowledge of what he is doing with us at any given stage of his unfolding purposes for our lives that make sense yeah alright yes Mr. Bischoff yes and then he also said and I thought someone would bring up this verse I have been young I have been old I have never seen the righteous forsaken

48:39 nor his seed begging bread yes Pastor Nichols maybe you ought to be in it ok this is alright having your priorities straight about the fact that you can't serve two masters you can't serve God and riches then in verse 25 he brings that home to the whole

49:24 subject of anxiety about those things which will preserve your life namely food to eat something to drink and clothes to wear but in the midst of that he gives a promise which seems to indicate that the normal pattern of the people of God will be that God will provide food for them and clothes for them and drink for them in verse 25 yes therefore I say you do not be anxious for your life what you shall eat or what you shall drink or yet for your body what you shall put on is it the life more than the body than the rain and then he gives a couple of illustrations of that verse 30 he says but if God

50:08 does so clothe the grass of the field which today is and tomorrow is cast into the oven shall he not much more clothe you only a little faith do not therefore be anxious saying what shall we eat what shall we drink or wherewithal shall we be clothed for after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knows that you have need of these things have seeked first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things shall be added to unto you do not therefore be anxious for tomorrow will be anxious for itself sufficient unto today is the evening of life there seems to be a general promise all these things

50:53 do clothe rain them all these things will be added unto you in the context of having your priorities straight and seeking first the kingdom so the point you're making is that there does seem to be a general promise not just with respect to good things which can be interpreted in various ways but specifically with respect to food and clothing and drink and it is what kind of a promise I notice you keep using the word alright the adjective it is a general promise and the principle that I have found helpful and this is not original with me is that any general promise pertaining to the physical well-being or the supply of the physical

51:37 needs of a Christian are conditioned by the principle of God's commitment and concern for the higher priorities of a person's development in grace so that at any time the general promise may have the what appears to be an exception in the life experience of the child of God now in our ordinary prayers what is to regulate our prayer the general promises of God so we are warranted to pray give us this day our daily bread we are warranted to pray as our priorities are straight Lord you have promised if I seek first your kingdom and your righteousness these other things

52:22 will be added I need not be like my pagan neighbors who give their minds and energies totally to the seeking of things there are higher concerns there are concerns peculiar to me as a believer and that should be our general pattern of prayer based upon the general promises but then if God brings us into a situation where after more intense prayer with respect to those promises and they seem to be unfulfilled then we must recognize there is another set of principles that comes in and we are called upon them to submit to God sometimes utterly ignorant of what he's doing with us and what his purposes may be and in those circumstances

53:05 our faith is tested and purified and brought to new levels of resignation to God you see this with our Lord himself if it be possible let this cup pass from me if there is any way for me to do your will and have an avoidance of this cup Lord be possible nevertheless not my will but thine be done and that must always be the posture of our hearts alright just this last comment our time is gone yes Louise

Conclusion and Closing Prayer

53:36 yes good well I hope that this has been helpful and I hope you've been armed with some principles when the Lord brings you into difficult circumstances where his general promises seem to be contradicted by your experience that you don't begin to doubt the validity of the promises but recognize that there are these broader concerns thank you for asking that question George

54:21 we got a long way from Jacob but I hope we didn't get a long way from the concerns well let's commit to God our thoughts and pray that he will seal his word to our hearts our Father we are grateful for this hour that we have spent together wrestling with this very practical concern we thank you for your holy word we thank you for the sufficiency of scripture we thank you for the wholeness and the balance of scripture and our Father we pray that we may understand your mind that we may not in looking at one dimension of truth have a distorted view of yourself or of your ways

55:06 with your children write upon our hearts the things we have considered today bring them to our remembrance when we most need them hear our prayer and continue with us in this morning of worship and praise and ministry may your name continue to be praised among us we ask through our Lord Jesus Christ Amen