Reduction of Elders: What Might God be Saying? Part 1

Introduction: The Providential Reduction of Elders

0:01 The following message was delivered on January 3, 1992, in the adult Sunday school class of the Trinity Baptist Church in Montville, New Jersey. Now, those of you who were with us at our prayer meeting on Wednesday will remember, I trust, that it was announced that the nature and the subject of today's adult class would be that of a guided discussion addressing the question, what may God be saying to us through the providences that have come to pass in our leadership in recent months? And the wording of the subject has been carefully chosen. What may God be saying to us through the providences that have come to pass in our leadership in recent months? Now, to lead into what I trust will be a profitable, guided discussion, let me first of all state some facts. And these facts are simply a specific articulation of the providences that have come to pass in our leadership. In 1988, we had eight elders in Trinity Baptist Church.

1:20 Since then, between 88 and 89, one of those elders was led to take up the labors of oversight in the system of the church. And he was led to take up the labors of oversight in the system of the church. And he was led to take up the labors of oversight in the system of the church. He was led to take up the labors of oversight in the system of the church.

1:28 He was led to take up the labors of oversight in the system of the church. And he began a poster assembly and continues to labor in that assembly with increased blessing and with increased responsibilities. Then, between 90 and 91, another elder left the eldership, stepping down to a domestic disruption which necessitated such a move. And then, a few months ago, another, for reasons of personal conscience, resigned this eldership and began a new group of elders.

1:58 has relocated and become a member in a sister church in another part of the country. Then, just a few weeks ago, yet another was temporarily set aside as far as we can determine the prognosis of his recovery when, through previous surgery, it was discovered in the EKG that there was some serious heart problem which eventuated and necessitated in a triple bypass surgery. Now, those are facts. And those facts have resulted in bringing our eldership numerically from eight to six because, thankfully, during that process, when others were being taken out of the eldership, God did add one new man to the eldership. Now, those are the facts of God's providence. Now, having studied...

Principle 1: All is the Outworking of God's Sovereign Will

2:53 stated those facts, let me briefly set before you three basic truths from the Word of God which demand that we reflect upon the facts of God's providence in this matter of the disruption and reduction within our eldership. And these three principles are vital to keep in mind whenever one seeks to understand, prayerfully and humbly, what God may be saying to us in his providence. Whenever anything comes into our lives in the providence of God and we're asking the question, not impudently, not seeking to get God in a hammerlock and force him to explain his ways to us or else, I don't know what the or else would be with God, it is vital that these three principles be constantly kept before us. Principle number one is that, all that comes to pass in our lives is the outworking of the sovereign will of God. All that comes to pass in our lives is the outworking of the sovereign will of God. And in the interest of time, a number of these passages, I'll not ask you to turn to them, though I normally would, but I'll quote them.

4:18 You may take notes of them, those of you who are taking notes. Ephesians 1.11 informs us, that God works all things after the counsel of his own will. And the two words, all things, leave nothing to chance.

4:37 Romans 11.36, For of him, and through him, and unto him, again those words are all things. All things are of him in terms of his sovereign will. In Proverbs 16 and verse 9, we have one of the most striking statements of that reality.

5:02 A man's heart devises his way, but Jehovah directeth his steps. My steps are not ultimately directed by my purposes and my plans, but by the sovereign will of God. And then, of course, Romans 8.28, And we know that all things work together, together for good, to those who love God, to those who are the called according to his purpose.

5:29 Well, how can all things even work together, let alone work together for good, if all things are not under the sovereign control and an expression of the sovereign will of God? So whenever we begin to wrestle with the question, what may God be saying to me individually, to our family, domestically, to our church, ecclesiastically, to our nation, what may God, be saying by his providence, we start with this premise that everything that comes to pass in every single realm of human existence is the outworking of the sovereign will of God. Secondly, and perhaps we would start this way, this would be number one, number two, and number three. The second principle is that God alone, completely, and infallibly knows his purposes in his providential dealings with us. God alone, completely, and infallibly knows his purposes in his providential dealings with us. We read in Isaiah 40, a passage from which I derived great comfort this morning for several reasons, reminds us of this great principle.

Principle 2: God Alone Knows His Purposes

6:53 We read in Isaiah 40, in verse 28, Hast thou not known, hast thou not heard, the everlasting God, Jehovah, creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary. There is no searching of his understanding. We cannot search to the point of exhaustion the understanding of God. Only God can fathom God.

7:23 And therefore, since the works of God are the outworking of the purposes and the wisdom of God, only God can completely and infallibly know his purposes in his providential dealings with us. And in Romans chapter 11, it is that very truth that Paul celebrates with this wonderful expression of praise. Verse 33 of Romans 11, says, and all the depth of the, the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God, notice now, how unsearchable are his judgments and his way tracing something. If the line goes out of sight, you can't trace it anymore. You cannot trace out the ways of God to perfection. They are past tracing out.

8:20 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? The answer being no one. Or who hath been his counselor? Who has taught God?

8:27 What to do? When to do it? And how? And why?

8:30 And the answer is obviously none but God himself. Now it is for this very reason that we read in Proverbs 20 and verse 24, another very helpful statement. A man's goings are of Jehovah. Who then or how then can man understand his way?

8:52 Jehovah, the great I am, present and future, who knows the connection between every single strand of activity in your life and mine and his own eternal plan when he's ordering the specific details of your life and mine. If indeed a man's goings are of this kind of a God, who then and how then can any mere creature understand his way? It's impossible. Therefore I say, God alone completely and infallibly knows his purposes in his providential dealings, with us.

9:35 In an excellent treatise, which if you don't have, I trust you will obtain and work your way through it, called The Mystery of Providence by Flavel. The newest edition from the banner has a different and more attractive cover and I'm quoting from the works of John Flavel, volume 4, where this treatise is found. I would urge you if you have the choice and haven't purchased either, get the paperback because they've updated the outline and some of the language and they've gone from the old room, Roman numerals in the verse references to our standard numbering system, but Flavel underscores this in this masterful treatise in which he's showing the duty of a Christian to reflect upon God's providences in his life, but he gives all along the way some very helpful cautions, and this is one of the first. Labor to work into your hearts a deep and a fixed sense of the infinite wisdom of God and your own folly and ignorance. This will make resignation easy to you.

10:44 Whatsoever the Lord does is by counsel, Ephesians 1.11. His understanding is infinite, Psalm 147.5. His thoughts are very deep, Psalm 119.

10:58 But as for man, yea, the wisest among men, how little doth his understanding penetrate the works and the designs of providence? And how oft are we forced to retract our rash opinions and confess our mistakes, acknowledging that if providence had not seen with better eyes than ours and looked farther than we did, we would not have been able to see the works and the designs of providence. But as for man, yea, the wisest among men, how little doth his understanding penetrate the works and the designs of providence. But as for man, yea, the wisest among men, how little doth his understanding penetrate the works and the designs of providence.

11:28 We had precipitated ourselves into a thousand mischiefs, which by its wisdom and care we have escaped. Isn't that beautiful? Think of old Jacob. When he's told, look, you've got to go down into Egypt and take that darling little Benjamin with you.

11:47 He says, all these things are against me. Providence is frowning when all the while the brightest smile providence ever put on her face was about to break upon him. He was going to see the one. For whom he had mourned and thought was dead.

12:01 And he and his posterity would be preserved to become the promised nation. Yet he said, looking at providence with his nearsightedness, all these things are against me. Thank God better eyes than his were planning his life. So, whenever we come to interpret providence, remember everything that comes to us comes as an outworking of the sovereign will of God.

Principle 3: Our Responsibility to Assess Providence by Scripture

12:28 But secondly, Remember, God alone completely and infallibly knows his purposes and his providential dealings with us. That leads us then to the third principle, and that will lead us into our discussion. We are responsible, humbly and prayerfully, to assess God's act of acts of providence in the light of the scriptures. We are responsible.

12:59 We are responsible, humbly and prayerfully, to assess God's acts of providence in the light of the scriptures. Recognizing we will never fully trace out his ways. That we will many times err in our judgment. Nonetheless, we are responsible.

13:24 Deuteronomy 29, 29. The secret things belong unto the Lord. The secret things belong unto the Lord. But the things that are revealed are for us and for our children.

13:35 And wherever the word of God sheds its light upon God's providential dealings with us, such light belongs to us. For we read in Psalm 119, 105, Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light to my pathway. And knowing that my pathway is ordered by the Lord, the word will often shed light upon that path, which may seem strange to me, that may seem to be utterly illogical, incongruous with many other things, but it is the word which will shed light upon that path. This is why in that well-known passage of James chapter 1, we are told, my brethren, count it all joy when you fall into diverse trials. The providence, the grace of God brings you into manifold trials or temptations. And we're to count it joy knowing something from the word of God, knowing that the purpose of these trials is to prove our faith and that the proving of our faith will work patience. Therefore, we're to let patience have its perfect work that we may be complete and entire, lacking in nothing.

14:54 So we recognize, when a combination of trials come upon us, it's not bad luck, it's not bad planning, it's not that bad people have been let loose upon us against the will of God. No, God has ordered this combination of trials. Knowing that he's ordered them for the testing and proving of our faith and the maturation of our patience, we may at times not see how these things are working to that end. So what are we to do?

15:26 The next verse, but if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God. Oh Lord, give me wisdom not to fully penetrate your mind with respect to this providence and all that it entails, but give me as much wisdom as is needed to respond to it to the end that its purpose may be realized in my life. That's the connection between the opening verses and the promise that if any lack wisdom, let him ask of God. So I say, we are responsible, humbly and prayerfully, to assess God's acts of providence in the light of the scriptures.

16:10 Psalm 111, 1-4 are another text. I'll not take time to quote it, but it's a wonderful passage. The works of the Lord are great, sought out of all those that have pleasure therein. But let me conclude this introduction with these three great and vital, by quoting again from Flavel.

16:30 The way we now have to know the will of God concerning us in difficult cases is to search and study the scriptures. And where we find no particular rule to guide us in this or that particular case, there we are to apply general rules and govern ourselves according to the overall teaching of scripture and the proportion, which they bear towards one another. So it is within that framework of biblical conviction that I, with the consent of my fellow elders, have designated this class this morning as a time when I will lead a guided discussion on the question, what may God be saying to us through the providences that have come to pass in our leadership in recent months. Now do you see, the tentativeness, what may God be saying? Rather than being dogmatic as though we can infallibly and fully interpret the providence of God. Now, because in a very real sense responding to that question will be a form of public instruction.

Call to Seek God for Wisdom and Raise Up Leaders

17:44 You are giving an insight as to what you believe God may be saying to us. I will give preference to the men as they would respond. And secondly, remember, the only light that we welcome is light from the word of God. So just as I will not impose my personal opinions upon you or even set them before you because they are worse than chaff, so if you're prepared to respond, be prepared to justify your response, if not with a text or several texts of scripture, some general scriptural principle.

18:26 And I trust, that more than the two who have called me have been thinking this matter through. They're two brethren unable to be with us in the class because of commitments to other responsibilities during this hour. And one of them, I talked to him at length and found his perspectives both helpful and I hope my response to him was helpful. All right?

18:51 Then for some of you who have been wrestling with this, and we begin with you brethren and we'll start on this side and move to the other, what do you believe God may be saying to us? I have prepared for last week this study sheet that has six things to which I have, or five, to which I've added two more throughout the week as I've reflected. But we'll take those that you have and put them on the board and see how our lists compare one with the other. All right?

19:22 All right, George?

19:25 There's not a lot of places where the inventions of God will put down one and lift up the other. But one of the verses I wrote down was in Psalm 75, 7. Yes. That one really speaks that there are some I don't know if it's termed identically enough but it says to that one the words are almost verbatim and it states that whatever happens in our church to this extent that we're talking about this morning God has done it.

20:01 All right. And that he has chosen when you mentioned the prophets as described news and the family situation and personal condition bring to pass some of our elders leaving us and those are, as you say, the past. But behind this there's my advice. When God is the judge he puts it down one and he lifts up another.

20:26 And as I say, I'm referencing that I was thinking of verse all was rejected by God. It says clearly that God has rejected me. Saul was put down by God. And then it says another place where I found in Psalm 78, 70 and 71 it says He chose David.

20:55 Yes, he chose David but also his servant and certainly of commission and so forth to become the shepherd of Jacob. And in this case I'm going a little ahead by saying it's not only that God didn't command him to be a downer for certain reasons but also he also proposed something perhaps in our own congregation there are men here that God will never shoot them. All right.

21:31 All right. Then how could we frame that, George? If at all possible I don't want to impose my homilies on the medical sphere of reference on to you people but I thought if we could state the matters in terms of interpreting what God has done constitutes a call to. A call to.

21:56 A call to. A call to. How would we state that principle or those principles that you've expressed? I was mentioning to the family on the way up in the car one thing I could say God is calling us to seek him.

22:11 All right. And whatever the need is as you mentioned in James seek God regarding or for wisdom for wisdom regarding these perhaps to raise up others and so there's there's one specific thing and you've given us a broad overview of some of the biblical principles. All right. Then we'll come over to this side. Yes, Henry? It might be possible to consider what God would not be saying to us. The situation that we might be tempted to do to our mission would be against the beautiful of God.

Call to Reaffirm Biblical Standards for Leadership

23:13 All right. That would be that God would not want us in our desire to do the desire I believe to be additional than the ownership to replace the unqualified then into the ownership. If God wants the ownership to be strengthened to be replaced by qualified then we'll need the qualifications to be replaced with the qualifications of the person who is going to be to bring us to life. That we should not be tempted to abandon or choose high standards in the midst of a situation where we can see that our own are being stretched.

23:54 Yes. All right. Now the point that Henry has made is there's not only a call to positive action it's a call to certain negative things and it could be put it this way it is a call to reaffirm our commitment to biblical standards for leadership.

24:15 Now can you think of any examples where people got antsy with reference to leadership or something that was needed in the purpose and plan of God and went ahead of God and then suffered for it. Can you think of any examples? I think of two immediately.

25:07 Yes. We want a king. Have us a king. God says all right I'll give you what you want and they suffered for it.

25:14 All right. But thinking now that was one incident and you think of one even earlier than that.

25:24 His name means wild man came the head of a nation that was a thorn in the side of Israel for generations and the father of the faithful grew weak in faith and had something to do with this character.

25:45 That's it. Yeah. That's right. Ishmael.

25:48 Ishmael. He was unwilling to wait for the son of promise Isaac and he got Ishmael. He got Ishmael. So the whole principle again of being willing to wait for God's Isaacs the sons of promise and in terms of what we're talking about here we have no reason to believe that Christ is giving any man to be an overseer a pastor and teacher in this assembly unless we can with good conscience as best we are able to carefully and prayerfully discern that he reflects the portrait of 1st Timothy 3 and Titus 1.

26:27 Christ gives the gifts whom he has described in his own word and no other. All right? So there Henry is saying that in a very definite way though I framed it in a positive way to try to keep some symmetry I think this reflects your mind. Does it not Henry?

26:43 Will you accept that? Good. All right. Now we come back to this side.

Call to Repudiate Confidence in the Creature

26:48 We have no one on this side then we're all right. Harry. Be careful not to put our confidence in that or our confidence in the flesh. All right.

27:14 Can you think of some texts that explicitly tell us not to put our confidence in men in such a way that we become unstrung if God removes them one or two or all of them. Can you think of any text?

27:30 All right. Psalm 118 and verse 8.

27:41 Good.

27:48 So there's the principle that God gives leaders princes to lead but make sure that you don't have misplaced confidence in them. That's a good text. This was one of the principles that I had written down this way. A call to a renewed repudiation of confidence in the creature.

28:09 A call to renewed barriers listed is not one that I had listed but let me ask you that two others. Jeremiah 17 5 and following cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his arm and whose heart departs from the Lord. Then he goes on to mention the frightening fruits of that and then that wonderful passage in Isaiah 2 and verse 22 Isaiah chapter 2 and verse 22 cease from man whose breath is in his mouth for wherein is he to be accounted of. If we believe the scriptures who is the only person absolutely essential to the life and well-being of Trinity Church? Will someone answer that question for me? The Holy Spirit who mediates to us in our experience the virtue the power the grace the will of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the life of his church.

29:37 Colossians 3 when Christ who is our life now do we really believe that? That the only only indispensable person for the life and well-being of Trinity Church is Jesus Christ. Now in his ordinary purpose he gives gifts pastors teachers he has ordained that there be officially recognized servants deacons he distributes other gifts of helps and of leadership etc. But none of them are indispensable Christ alone is indispensable.

30:17 Grieve him so that he removes the candlestick and it won't matter if you had a hundred elders.

30:26 Dishonor him so that he has a controversy with us and it won't matter what we do. So that's a vital principle that Harry has articulated I would be surprised if not a few of you had that in mind. All right? We have another.

Call to Intensified Prayer for Wisdom and Righteous Action

30:43 Yes, Mike? Maybe in contrast to that I had thought of your third principle as kind of a statement of business. All right. That is that the principles of God are our primary life and I would say this is a call to leadership where you pursue I found in my own life there are times when things were very obvious this is what I should do.

31:12 The principle said no. Don't do this. This is just dealing with immoral people not to be involved in that yet if they were very tempted. There are other times when it seems impossible to do what the principle would tell us to do.

31:31 This church building is an example of that. For many years it seemed like the building had to come away. It's a lot more time. So though we don't want to put our confidence in flesh there's time when flesh needs to determine what we need to do based on principle we need to pursue it.

31:59 Alright so in a very real sense applying it to James chapter 1 this would be a call to intensified prayer for wisdom in our response to this providence. Am I saying what you're saying Mike? Yes. Sometimes wisdom isn't that clear.

32:17 There needs to be principle I mean the church needs leadership that we would have an elder at all. We would say we've got to look around and just pray. Yes. They have to pursue different.

32:34 Okay. So it's a call to intensified prayer for wisdom to take the course of action that is pleasing to God in the light of the scriptures. I can't write all that down. Okay.

32:48 I don't know if I can even repeat it.

32:51 It's a call to intensified prayer that I remember intensified prayer and the prayer is for wisdom with respect to the course of action. That's it. Course of action that would be most pleasing to God. I hope someone's writing that down because I don't have that in my list of seven and that's crucial and it is a direct application of James where we have fallen in that sense into it's not a manifold trial that which is a trial, a time of testing for us as a congregation and that is a call then to intensified prayer for wisdom, wisdom particularly with reference to a righteous godly course of action as we respond and that would of course then take in some of these others. It would take in what Henry has said. Even as Mike has said in some things you hardly need even pray. Lord give me wisdom in this business deal because you know to sign the contract you would be compromising the fundamental principle of the word of God.

33:56 But here as in so many things you're juggling many principles and that's what wisdom is. It's the God-given ability imparted by the spirit to take our knowledge of the word of God and its principles and to know how they fit together to give us direction in a given set of circumstances. That is the traditional distinction between mere knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is knowing things.

34:23 Wisdom is ability to take the things we know and properly. This is what Flabel was referring to when he said when there's no clear explicit direction to take the overall teaching of the word of God bring it together in due proportion knowing which principles ought to be given more weight in this set of circumstances than in another set of circumstances that may seem to be parallel but have some different factors in them. All right? Yes, Mike?

34:54 The military picture would be, I think, an example of that also. There's almost never a time when going out into war looks like the will of God. But then you've got to come up with your war plan and do the best you can. Hmm.

35:14 Yes. Yes, and you see example of that, remember? When the general and king of Israel stood before this massive army of the Syrians and said, Lord, we know not what to do, but our eyes are upon thee. That's a wonderful posture to be in.

35:30 He said, Lord, I'm ignorant, but at least I got sense enough to know that the answer doesn't lie within or without. It lies above. We know not what to do, but our eyes are upon thee. All right?

Call to Mortify Carnal Attachments to Leaders

35:42 All right, Phil?

35:44 Paul, I'm also allegiances or attachments to many individual elders, my members of the congregation, and I was thinking like 1 Corinthians 1, 11, the house before me don't fall but there were religious men of policy and I received this call. All right, that this could well be God's way of calling us to away from any incipient carnal attachment to men in leadership. I don't think we could say that anyone among us could report to an apostle that a party spirit existed among us or does exist, but these kinds of things can disclose any incipient elements of an unwholesome attachment not just to men in general, reliance upon the creature ceased from man whose breath is in his nostrils but also where there might be an incipient carnal attachment to any specific person, be it LLM or ANM or DLD or GGN or anyone else. You must never, never, never have an attachment to the creature that enters into the realm of a carnal attachment that would be displeased

37:13 to God and could it be that what God has done is to speak to us and remind us that that possibility is there if it could happen under the nose of an apostle with such men of the stature of Paul, of Peter and Apollos, who are we to think we're exempt from it? I mean, we're just plain spiritually stupid to think we're not vulnerable to that. So that's another helpful one. I hope, again, someone's writing all these down.

37:40 I did not have that listed in my list of seven. All right? Coming back to this side. Let's see.

Call to Renewed Dependence and Mortify Complacency

37:48 Mike will take you and if there's not someone else from this side. All right, Mike? I think of one that probably would encompass what you would have said, but I think of Paul's humility and how dependent we are upon God to not only preserve our existing honor and health and so forth, but as we said earlier, raising up, that we are actually all dependent upon him to provide and sustain what we have. All right?

38:13 So it's a renewed call for dependence upon God for something we may have begun to take for granted. Could that be? I mean, sometimes God rattles our cage to get our attention that we take the cage for granted. So they may pull out a bar or two and there's a lion on the outside.

38:32 The cage has been our comfort and our protection and God rattles the cage, pulls out a bar or two and then we feel afresh our vulnerability so it could well be that this is a call from God at least to some, a call from God to mortify a sinful complacency and to plead more fervently with God that he would both continue to maintain stability in the leadership as well as add to it. All right? Someone back on this side. Yes.

Call to Retrenchment and Prioritizing Local Flock

39:08 Ron? There was a lot of pressure on your law to take the law to go into charge and focus on voting.

39:30 All right? If you all didn't hear that, Ron has suggested, could it be that this providence is a call to the existing eldership to refocus or to draw in for a period of time the extent of the use of our time and our energies and our gifts and what biblical text would help your elders? They're sitting down and they're doing what we have been doing over the past couple of weeks all the way from canceling certain of my commitments to charging one other elder to buy fewer air tickets over the next couple of months and to put fewer miles on his car. So we've been doing this.

40:12 Now what text should be pressing in upon our consciences as we do it? What text do you think have been working on our consciences?

40:23 He said we want biblical grounds. That sounds reasonable but a lot of human reason can do you bad if it's not biblical. All right? So what text?

40:33 All right Bill?

40:35 All right so often then our ability to do things that are good and noble in themselves are simply not expedient. All things may be lawful but they may not be expedient. So this would be then a call for a at least a present retrenchment and a good word of the extent of the present elders labors.

41:35 One or two other texts that you ought to think of that are pressing in upon our consciences. Yes, David? From one to all I think it's right to see that all of us have to do this. I love Romans 1 verse 13.

41:54 Okay. And I would not have you ignorant brethren that oft times I purposed to come unto you and was hindered hitherto that I might have some fruit in you. The principle being there's nothing wrong with godly servants of Christ desiring to have a more extensive ministry but now suppose I answered by saying that this was an apostle we're only elders so apostles were perambulators anyway. They were supposed to be pastors to the universal churches so we're not apostles David.

42:26 That text is a wash. Now I wouldn't do that but if I did can you come up with one that's got more clout that I mean if we were insensitive to this and said no god has called us to this wider ministry suppose I took that posture with my fellow elders and I said brethren I don't care what you say I have a conscience before god god's given me a stewardship and if I can't fulfill that stewardship you guys will have to get someone else I'll have to leave as a matter of conscience. Now what text do you think they'd rub under my nose? Pete?

42:59 Now we're getting close to home. Alright. Acts 20 and verse 28. Why do you think this text would be one they could stick under my nose?

43:08 It says the apostle Paul was leading the church of Ephesus he expressed to the elders there in verse 28 be on your guard for yourselves and all the prophets of god will not be with you . The holy spirit has made you overseer to shepherd the church of god which he purchased to his own blood. Alright. So here's an apostle charging elders that whatever else you do take heed to the flock of god in the which the holy spirit has made you overseer.

43:41 So though we may deduce that we have various responsibilities growing out of this local assembly that take some of us far afield and may have biblical grounds to believe that such ministries are justifiable in the light of this present providence which has cut down the ability of accessibility to all of the flock and the caring of all of the flock we must let what is explicit and clear take precedence over what is merely deduced and inferred. You see the difference between the two? We may deduce and infer that I ought to have a ministry to the men of the southern churches in Florida the end of January and in coming to the decision months ago to accept that invitation which comes through the eldership we did in good faith but in the light of what is developed that ministry has been cancelled. It was hard to call Pastor Fisher and say brother can I be honorably released because of the well he was so gracious so gracious but that decision was made and other decisions were being made because this is explicit the same way a man who is a father fathers nurture your children well here's a man who is a father and has children still within his home well God may have given him gifts that could be used having

45:11 him away months at a time but as I said to one man who told me that God had called him to be away from his home 45 days at a stretch I just put Ephesians 6-4 under his nose and said tell me how the God who said this is telling you to be away from your teenage sons 45 days at a stretch I had cheek enough to stick the word of God under his nose and thankfully he had grace enough to hear it and he quit the job he was doing that kept him away 45 days at a time it wasn't a military thing in the midst of this was something where he could change the arrangement so that's a very vital text and the parallel of course would be 1 Peter chapter 5 the elder is among you I exhort to him also an elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ and the glory to follow shepherd the flock of God not of constraint but willingly of a ready mind exercising the oversight so that is very clear text alright we're running out of time we've got to get some other things in here quickly yes George 4 you have the apostle our death according to and things that you have to do leading our world we have long to do and so then we are not in our eldership but the point of interest that he's making here is first that he was raised from the opposite and so maybe this is not the reason

Future Study: Dependence on Elders and Body Ministry

46:41 for the elders here to reevaluate well George you have really touched now on a matter that opens up about three or four

47:37 things that I have listed here brethren I need to be on clarification to carry this on next week do you not there's one of my fellow elders there Jeff all right and may I urge you to take the clue from what George has just said could it be could it be that one of the things God is saying to us has to do with addressing what may be an inordinate dependence upon our elders personally and in inordinate expectation in terms of what they should be doing for the total witness and impact and ministry of this church and in conjunction with that question that I'd like to pick up as the first one next week God willing may I urge you to read carefully and pray over Ephesians 4 and in particular concentrate upon verses 11 through 16 alright Ephesians chapter 4 verses 11 through 16 prayerfully meditate upon those verses with this question in mind what is God possibly saying to us through this present combination of his providences could it be that he's saying something to

49:06 us concerning this matter of the nature of our both relationship to and expectation of our elders alright let me throw out that and then let me throw out one other matter that I think will grow out of this could he be saying something to us regarding the whole biblical concept of how the body of Christ ministers to itself now that's in this passage but it's not exhausted here and for some of you that may have an hour to study this out may I urge you to take your concordance and look up the words one another or another and see if you come up with some of the one another passages in the word of God and I think you will find that profitable but our time has gone it's 10 31 I do appreciate the fact that it appears to

50:10 be of this nature we put the stipulation it was not a matter of just asking questions but it really borders on the matter of giving authoritative instruction from the word of God and we did not want to violate 1 Corinthians 14 in that area so please I trust none of you feels put down I hope you've been edified but that does not mean you cannot ask an elder in a more private situation ask your husbands ask the males literally is what the scripture tells us and then when we return in other times to situations where it is just the asking of a question for clarification amplification etc we are not establishing any kind of a new rule that women cannot speak in the forum of this class we respect the convictions of those who operate that way that we do not have such a conscience in the light of our present understanding of the word of God and I say that especially knowing we have visitors among us I don't want you to go away with a misconception of how we generally function well let's pray and thank God for his help and his presence with us our father we thank you for being with us this morning we thank you for hearing the prayers that we prayed on Wednesday and again yesterday morning

51:39 pleading with you that you would make this time to be a season of mutual edification and our father we thank you for the many truths of the word of God that you have set before us we pray for grace to receive them not only into our minds but into our hearts and into our affections and we pray oh Lord that where one or more of these calls from your providence to our hearts have specific application to us individually give us grace to hear your voice speaking to us in this providence and may our response be one of loving obedience thank you for your presence and your grace and continue with us in the hour to come we ask through our Lord Jesus Christ the head and life of his church amen