The Older Women Training the Younger, Part 1

Introduction and Review of Previous Studies

0:04 This Adult Sunday School class was held on November 27, 1988, at the Trinity Baptist Church in Montville, New Jersey. While others are taking their place, I do want to take this opportunity to express my own personal gratitude to two individuals. First of all, to Pastor Martinez for speaking to us some weeks ago in this place and giving to us a very helpful, orderly presentation of the needs in the Philippines, particularly the needs in the area in which the Lord has called him to labor. And I'm sure those of us who were here recognized that the materials that were set before us in such a succinct and orderly fashion were not thrown together in half an hour, and we are in debt to our brother for his labors. On our behalf, and are grateful to God for the substance of what he conveyed to us and also the manner in which it was conveyed to us. And as I have been privileged to sit here out of four, out of the past five Lord's Days,

1:26 or three of the four in which Pastor Bob has led us in our studies in Genesis, I want to express my thankfulness to God to him. And for this rich study that I personally know I would not be competent to give, I shall never, by God's grace, until my dying day, read those genealogies in Genesis with this mingled attitude of, Lord, I know it's your holy and infallible and inspired word, and therefore I read it knowing it's profitable. But, Lord, you know that I know I don't know what the profit is. And that's the way I've read them.

2:09 I'm being honest with you. But I thank God that as a result of our study last week and the week before, and not only with respect to the genealogies, but that other rich, basic material in Genesis, that I am able to read those portions unto my edification and to reflect on the goodness of God in preparing his own covenant people to appreciate what he had been doing in history long before he died. And so I am thankful for the profit that has come to my own soul as I have been privileged to sit among you as a student in this class before resuming this morning my role as a teacher. Now, after a break of some five weeks, we come back today to our discussion of the first of the crucial issues facing the people of God, namely the broad subject and concern of male and female identity, roles, and functions. Now, building on the broad base of the biblical teaching concerning the shared identity of male and female, namely the identity and shared identity which they have in virtue of creation, the fall, and redemption, we then concentrated,

3:37 on the established hierarchy of 1 Corinthians 11 and verse 3, a divinely established hierarchy in which the apostle sets before us by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit this arrangement in which God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of man, and man is the head of the woman. And having said that, we are now going to be talking about the first of the crucial issues and having said that, we are now going to be talking about the first of the crucial issues and having sought to expound the basic concept of this divinely instituted hierarchy and the fact that it is rooted in the creation order and not in any time-bound or shifting cultural framework, we then saw from the scriptures how this hierarchy is to be manifested and express itself in three major areas. In the area of the Holy Spirit, the home or the domestic sphere, in the church or the ecclesiastical sphere, and then in what I call general appearance, demeanor, and bearing, so that maleness and femaleness and a hierarchy in which man is the head of the woman is, according to the word of God,

5:01 to be manifested in these areas. Well, realizing that, that this teaching is greatly opposed in our day by some, it is anathematized, we then spent a number of weeks taking up the major objections that are raised against this teaching, objections that come from two realms. If this represents the church or the professing people of God, and this the world, we looked at the objections that come from without. The major objections, being voiced against this teaching by those who make no profession of allegiance to Jesus Christ or submission to his word. But more subtle, and perhaps far more dangerous to us, are the objections that come from within. Those that are raised from within the very professing church of Christ, those that are raised supposedly on the basis of the church, on the basis of the church, on the basis of the church, on the basis of the church, on the basis of the church, on the basis of the church, of the Bible. And we sought to identify those objections and then to answer them from the Word of God. Then what we were doing at the time we cut off our studies five weeks ago

6:21 was working through the assertion that the domestic sphere is the primary and ordinary realm within which a woman fulfills her God-assigned role, or more simply stated, a woman's place is in the home. Now, I qualified the assertion before we began to see whether or not it was rooted in Scripture, that this is not addressing the question of extended singleness, of widowhood, of a married state where childlessness is the condition of a woman's life. The assertion that the couple is called upon to bear, where there may be temporary emergencies or abnormal situations, but rather the assertion is carefully worded, the domestic sphere is the primary and ordinary realm within which a woman fulfills her God-assigned role. And then when I asked you to come forth with the key passages, you did. Titus 2, verses 3 to 5, 1 Timothy 5, 9 to 14, and 1 Timothy 2, 8 through 15. And what I would like to do in

The Importance of Titus 2:3-5 and the Credibility of the Gospel

7:41 just briefly reviewing the thrust of those passages is to read two quotes from several commentators whom I have found helpful. At the end of the passage in Titus, where Paul instructs Titus to teach the older women to...

8:01 live in a certain manner with a view to their influence upon the younger women, and then underscores seven virtues that are to mark and to predominate in the younger women. Summarizing the exposition of that passage in Titus, Mr. Lenski, the Lutheran commentator, writes, Paul has more to say regarding the young women than regarding any other class in the world. Why this is the case is indicated by the purpose clause, which, however, extends back also to the old women, because they are to be qualified for producing all this sober-minded in the young women. If the women fail in what Paul here asks, he fears, verse 5, lest the word of God be blasphemed, lest the whole gospel be vilified. So much depends on the women, in great part, on the young women of the church. The world will, to a great extent, judge the churches by the character which the gospel produces in the women. And he bases that

9:24 on the text, that the word of God be not blasphemed, indicating that if women, in general, but in particular the younger women, do not exemplify a hearty submission to biblical norms, it brings the very credibility of the gospel into question. Now, then, as we worked through those three key passages, I promised you two things. I promised, number one, that we would go back to Titus 2 and the whole question of the older women teaching the younger women. I promised, number one, that we would go back to Titus 2 and the whole question of the older women teaching the younger women.

Defining 'Train' in Titus 2:4 and the Nature of the Instruction

10:03 women. I don't know if you remember that promise, but I do. And then secondly, I promised you that we would consider Proverbs chapter 31 and its application to this general teaching of the scripture and its support or non-support of the assertion that the domestic sphere is the primary and ordinary realm within which a woman fulfills her God-assigned role. Now, if you will turn to the Titus 2 passage, I want to attempt this morning with your help, and if your help is not forthcoming, then I'll have to make the attempt alone and then probably end up beginning to fulfill the second promise as well. But with your help, I want to fulfill the first promise. That is, I want to fulfill the second promise. That is, to consider together Titus chapter 2 and the whole question of how are the older women to teach, to train. The verb, as we indicated in our previous study, is found only in this place

11:21 in the New Testament, though the family of words out of which it comes is found in a number of places, particularly in the pastoral epistles. Precisely how are the older women to fulfill this privilege and responsibility? Now, for the sake of any who are not with us, let us at least read the passage. Follow, please, as I read Titus chapter 2, verses 1 through 5.

11:50 But speak the things which befit sound doctrine. If you have an NIV, you'll notice it says teach. Now, the standard word for teach is simply, not there. It's the ordinary word for speak, laleo. And so the old 1901 translates it properly, speak the things which befit the sound doctrine, that the aged men be temperate, grave, sober-minded, sound in faith, in love, in patience, that aged women likewise be. In other words, the force of the verb to be, speak the things which befit the sound doctrine.

12:31 speak the things which befit the sound doctrine, that the aged men be. Now, that to be verb carries over that the aged women likewise are to be reverent in demeanor, not slanderers nor enslaved to much wine. And then you have an adjective here. You don't have a verbal construction. You have an adjective. Teachers of that which is good. It is an adjective describing the woman's character.

13:00 It is not a description of a specific activity in which she is to engage. Then you have your clause of purpose. In order that they may train. Some put teach, and others translate it other ways, because it's the only place it occurs in the New Testament, and the usages in contemporary Greek seem to be relatively few in all of the commentators that I've read.

13:31 Some put teach, and others translate it other ways, because it's the only place it occurs in the New Testament, and the usages in contemporary Greek seem to be relatively few in all of the commentators that I've read. And I spent a good part of yesterday afternoon reading, I believe, every commentary apart from old William Gill in my study on Titus, trying to track down the meaning of this word, sophronizo, this verb. And only one commentary found a phrase from one of the old pagan writers in which this verb, was used in contrast with the verb nutheteo, which means to admonish. But apart from that, very little light was given in all of the commentators, except they all observed that it's the only place that the verb is used in the New Testament. But it comes from the word, which in its root meaning means to be sober, to be in touch with reality. So the verb means to return someone to soberness. To turn someone to thinking in terms of reality.

14:37 So the aged women are exhorted to be a certain kind of woman, in order that they may return to soberness, or to sober thinking, or may bring to sober thinking the young women, which will involve these things, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be, and here's another form of that word, sober-minded, chaste, workers at home, kind, being in subjection to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. Now, the question that has been raised by several, perhaps more, of our young women is, why is there no specific forum in Trinity Church in which the older women are doing what this text, did what is behind what is behind the Apaia Bible or what it says? Does it not say that the older women are to train the younger, should they're not a formal forum, kind of a . in which the instruction is done by women, the ones they instruct are the younger women, and the subject matter of their instruction is

Is Formal Teaching Demanded by Titus 2?

16:06 biblical domestic competence. now, my first question where I said, if you help me, me, we'll probably get no further than fulfilling my first promise. Does demand a formal relation described? Does this text demand that older, in the sense that we normally think of teaching, where someone on a one-to-one basis assumes the role of a teacher and someone the role of a pupil, or one-to-two, or one-to-six, or one-to-sixty, or one-to-six-hundred? Does this text demand that older women teach in a formal, structured situation in which they are clearly identified as the teacher, and the young woman or women the teachees or the pupils? Yea or nay? You would say no. And

17:22 why would you say no? For character, I would think that it would be more of an example that they lived and walked before the younger women. It would be that teaching element rather than standing and instructing. All right. Because the emphasis of the text is, notice now, Timothy is to speak the things which befit sound doctrine, and the first specific area is what he's to teach the older men, that they're to be temperate, brave, sober-minded, sound in faith, in love, in patience. He's emphasizing character traits that commend God's godliness in an older man, and then he turns to the older women, and he emphasizes the character traits that are to mark them. If I hear Ken rightly, what he's saying is since the emphasis falls upon the kind of character they are to manifest, the training or the teaching then is primarily by

18:28 example of that character as it is manifested before the younger women. Now, does someone want to agree with him? Disagree with him, carry it on further, or take a totally different approach? Does this text demand that older women teach in the formal, structured capacity in which they are identified as teacher and younger women as pupils or learners?

18:56 Anyone else want to brave an answer? All right. Ron? Well, because of what you said about the word, that it's too general in the word to command such an idea as well, in fact, that it's applied in the faith that Toward Formal Teaching.

19:21 All right, so you would say we have a second indication that this is not binding the consciences of older women to assume the role of a formal teacher? Number one, the indefiniteness of the word used when the standard word for teaching was readily at hand for Paul to use. It's used many times in the pastoral epistle. and the fact that the Spirit of God did not move him to choose that standard word which would have lent more pressure in that direction.

19:55 And then the second reason, if I hear you rightly, Ron, is the overall, what we call the analogy of faith. When you read that term, the analogy of faith, that's speaking of the overall teaching of the Bible on a given subject and our interpretation of any one passage must always agree with the analogy of faith. That is, it must never contradict the general teaching of the word of God on a given subject and since the teaching role in the church in its formal expression is a role that God has assigned to men, we would be reluctant then to overturn that general teaching on the basis of this one rather nebulous passage. Is that what you're saying? That's what you're saying, Ron. Okay.

20:43 Someone else want to agree? Disagree? All right. Cliff?

20:47 It seems that the only person that is commanded to teach specifically is Titus where he speaks out the things that befit sound doctrine and then as the result of speaking sound doctrine, it says that's the age of men and then it says that's the age of women. So he's talking about the result of sound doctrine. He's talking about the result of sound teaching upon the hearers as opposed to someone getting up and officially proclaiming the word of God in a structured setting. So I think probably he is talking here more about the result of the word of God and the life of the aged women that they may be able as a result of knowing the way of God to be able to instruct others. It says that they may train young women. It doesn't say that they must train the young women. So we have, you know, I suppose a teaching that there's to teach young women as the occasion may give itself, as the occasion may arise with young women in their conversation with them during their day-to-day life.

22:00 So you're saying then that the main thrust of the passage is what Titus, the official teacher in Crete, is to say to the older and younger women and then as a result... as a result of that teaching being imbibed then the older women may, in an informal sense, have natural opportunities to instruct not only by example but then in their interaction with the younger women of the church.

22:31 All right? I want to make sure now I'm rightly representing because I want it all to get into here. All right? Okay.

Further Arguments Against Formal Teaching and the Role of Spiritual Gifts

22:39 Someone else want to differ or come from another direction? All right, David? I suppose it's different. You all hear what he's saying?

23:16 If they're to be keepers at home and lovers of their children, indicating they still have children at home, the rather contradictory framework to be leaving the home once or twice a week to be instructed as to how to be a keeper at home. That's a point David has made. I hadn't thought of that. It's worth considering.

23:36 I'm just... I'm fishing now.

23:38 I'm not evaluating. At least I'm trying not to. All right, then. ...speeching that all older women are going to engage that form of instruction.

23:55 And how can you treat me in the role as though where it says there are various cases? Ah, good. I was hoping someone would bring this out of the water. I was fishing for that.

24:06 You see, the point that our brother is making, how many of the older women are charged in this passage? Some or all of them. The passage teaches that aged women, older women, are formally to teach. It's teaching that all of them must do it.

24:29 Does any aged woman have a right to exempt herself from being reverent in her demeanor? Any aged woman have a right to exempt herself from being a slanderer? Any aged woman have a right to exempt herself from being not enslaved to much wine? You say, no.

24:48 ...right to exempt herself from being a teacher of the young women in a formal sense, if that's what it's teaching.

24:58 And that would contradict, as Pastor Martinez has said, that would contradict Romans 12. Having then gifts measure of the gift of Christ. We are to recognize, to assess our gifts, not to think more highly than we ought, not to think beneath what is reality. And then he says, upon that sober reflection in the context of the body of Christ, it will be clear, some have a gift to teach, some have a gift of exhortation, some have a gift of prophecy, some have a gift of rule, some have a gift of showing mercy, some have a gift of giving.

25:38 And those are the gifts that are mentioned. But he says, having then gifts differing. So, if we were to say that this passage binds the conscience of older...

25:52 ...in a formal way, the younger women, then it binds all...

25:58 ...or not they have a gift to teach or not.

26:01 Now you've got big bad problems, because you're flying into the face of the analogy of Holy Scripture. All right? ...had his hand raised. Yes, Michael?

Distinguishing Demand from Permission: Interaction and Liberty

26:13 ...verse of your name.

26:15 Oh, that's fine. We live in a time when it's very easy for a woman to be in their house all the time, and for an older woman to keep busy with all of their own personal activities. I think the passage does require that there be some interaction. Okay.

26:35 Oh, now that's another whole question. Interaction. Is that the same as formally structured teaching sessions? It doesn't have to be, but it could be.

26:45 It could be, but it doesn't have to be. Excellent. See? I like that kind of language.

26:50 That's giving areas of liberty. You see? Because we're talking about the conscience of a godly woman. That's why we want to tread very carefully.

26:58 And you who have been in this place longer than a year or two know that when it comes to binding the consciences of God's people, we who teach publicly, we seek. We seek. Albeit imperfectly, I'm sure. But we seek to be very careful when it comes to binding the consciences of God's people to make sure that the law of Christ alone is that which binds the conscience.

27:25 Because we can only speak in His name and with His authority when we speak according to His word. We have no legislative authority, only administrative and declarative. Not legislative. We don't make rules.

27:42 We only articulate the rules that are there, and where appropriate, seek to enforce them within the framework of the life and discipline of the church. But we don't make the rules. So that's why we want to be very, very careful. And that's why I framed my question, Does this text demand that the older women teach?

28:04 Would I have a right to stand up here this morning and say, All of you women who qualify as older women, you have a solemn obligation to have at least one woman who is under your wing whom you are tutoring and teaching in a formal, structured, regular manner. And if you're not doing it, you're sinning. You see, that would be a horrible thing if the word of God didn't teach that. And that's what we're trying to ascertain.

28:31 Does it teach that? And the general consensus coming out of you is, No. But now, Mr. Worthing has injected, a qualifying statement, Yes.

28:42 But does the text suggest that there must be interaction? And does it permit that an older woman may have, given other factors, a formal, structured framework of instructing another younger woman or group of women? May. Is she permitted to do so?

29:09 And that's an entirely different thing. All right. Any other questions who want to respond to the question? Other things you've seen in the passage?

29:14 Jonathan? It seems like verse 3 emphasizes traits of character. Mm-hmm. And I would assume that verse 4 probably begins with a pinnacle clause.

29:27 Yes, it does. It brings us then to a point of focus as to the relevance or the importance of those character traits listed in verse 3. The upshot of that would be that whatever that training, the upshot of that would be that whatever that training, the upshot of that would be that whatever that training, should involve, that is stipulated in verse 4, is a matter of focus and a matter of importance. Mm-hmm.

29:53 And, you know, I'm not prepared to say whether or not that would necessitate formal training, but it is certainly a matter to be considered as the focus of the passage. Okay. So that the whole focus that Jonathan is indicating in the grammar of the passage, Titus, is to teach these specific things, to the older women, in order that, here's the end he has in view, in order that the older women may exert this teaching influence upon the younger women with respect to these 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 virtues that characterize a godly woman who has children at home and who is to be the various things that are indicated. But the emphasis is upon the character of the older woman being what he describes in his body of teaching in order that this woman may train. Therefore, the emphasis seems to fall upon the training that is informal, but powerful by example. But now, as Michael has indicated, does that exclude, suppose there is an older woman,

31:18 who has a gift of teaching, and that gift has been proven, and under the oversight of the elders, she is assigned a responsibility which she willingly accepts to meet with the younger women once a month in a formal way to entertain questions, to perhaps give some formal instruction on some of these matters just to women in the context, it is under the oversight of the elders of the church, would that be in violation of the Biblical teaching, I suffer not a woman to teach, nor usurp authority over the man, the women are to keep silence in the church, would that scenario I've just illustrated violate any of those Biblical injunctions? Phil? No. No.

32:11 Because you also have a problem with that phrase that he's talking about, authority in the church, and basically with religious matters, whereas if you're talking, say, an older woman who's, say, about 40, and her children are left home, and are married, there's no reason she couldn't have, let's say, a teenage girl, well, a teenage girl, as in, and teach them domestic, Yeah. sewing circle, or cooking, or something along that line. Yeah. In other words, we're not envisioning a formal gathering of the church.

32:47 Those directives of 1 Timothy 2, of 1 Corinthians 14, apply to the gathered church. And if we are not speaking of the gathered church, but of a segment of God's people who have special needs, and we are seeking to minister to them, that may indeed be in order. However, and since I believe there is a very clear or general consensus coming forth from you in answer to the first question, does this text demand that older women teach in a formal structure that we would ordinarily think of as a teacher-pupil situation? I believe the consensus of response from the passage, as you've opened up the various lines in the analogy of Scripture, is no. And if that's so, then it leads to a second question, and Michael has anticipated that, and I've anticipated it by describing this scenario. Here's the second question. What avenues of instruction, teaching, then, are open to the older women, and ought to be seized as opportunity affords itself?

The Most Natural Avenue: Mother-Daughter Discipleship

34:04 What avenues are open to them? And I want to give a sub-question to that. What is the most natural avenue open to older women to teach younger women? Yeah.

34:22 Isn't that amazing? I was wrestling with this thing for several hours in my study, and then I went out, and it was so beautiful yesterday, and while I was running, I was praying. I had been talking with my wife about the matter, and chewing the thing over, and rooting around in all my books, and saying, Lord, there must be something that's on the surface that I'm missing. And I went back to the text, and I want us to look at the text, see what it says.

34:51 The aged women are to be reverent in demeanor, not slanders, nor enslaved to much wine, teachers of that which is good, and that's an adjective, that they may train, or teach, or bring to sober thinking, the younger women, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sober-minded, chaste, workers at home, kind, being in subjection to their own husbands. Now, we read the passage, in the assumption that as the gospel came to Crete, it came to a society that was really messed up, in terms of what we would call common grace. Paul describes in Titus 1 and verses 10 and 11, is it, the characteristics, yes, of the dwellers at Crete. Look at Titus 1 verse 10. There are many unruly men, vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped, men who overthrow whole houses, teaching things which they ought not for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons.

36:11 This testimony is true. So, idleness, susceptibility to false teaching, being pandered in homes, being gluttonous, dishonest, these were the marks of a degenerate pagan society into which the gospel came. And as it came, it saved some older women, and it saved some younger women, and the assumption of the text seems to be that these older women are envisioned as those whose families are pretty well out of the nest, and the younger women are at home, with their little ones still in the nest. But is there anything in the text that excludes, by way of legitimate application, the teaching of these seven virtues before the child ever leaves the nest? If it's right to teach someone whose kids are already in the nest, who's already married, if it's right to teach them in the midst of those awesome responsibilities of being a godly wife and a godly mother, if it's right that an older woman should teach by example and in informal interaction some of the avenues of which we'll touch upon subsequently,

37:37 then surely it is right for the younger women to take the pliable children, particularly her daughters, and to instruct her in these seven virtues that ought to mark a godly wife and mother. And if you have daughters at home really lay to heart this tremendous privilege, what's it going to do in your own life with regard to those seven virtues? It's going to make you constantly cry to God to get your own act together, because your example will be the most powerful instructor to your children. Now I had a vivid reminder of this along with about eighty other people at our annual Martin Homecoming in Lancaster, Pennsylvania on Thanksgiving Day. As a number of you know, it's been a tradition in my extended family, I'm one of ten children and usually at least seven or eight of the families, and that includes the wives and all of the children and the grandchildren and even the great-grandchildren, gather at a rented hall outside of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. It's a little farm museum, nothing fancy but very adequate for us,

39:04 and everyone brings different things. My wife is commonly known among my siblings and their children, all the nieces and nephews, as Aunt Mickey the cookie lady. Because we come from such a distance, she doesn't bring a hot dish, but she brings three or four Tupperware things full of various cookies. And one of the nieces who's at college, said she was waiting all years for her M&M cookies.

39:31 And usually there are some guests invited, so this time we had about eighty. And what my father asked various ones to do, for he's still the patriarch and calls the shops at age eighty-one, and he had written several weeks ago and asked one member of each family to speak on what they are thankful for at this Thanksgiving from the perspective of, one of my sisters just this past year became a grandmother for the first time, so she was asked to speak on what she's thankful for as a first-time grandmother. Someone else, what they are thankful for as a college student. Someone else, what they are thankful for as a single Christian.

40:15 Well, in the midst of that, one thing came through very, very clearly. As Thanksgiving was rendered to God for the heritage that my mother and father left to the ten of us, and thank God that in turn some of us, from the testimony of our children, in spite of all our failure, have left with them, the thing that came through again and again and again and again was the tremendous power of example. If there was one recurring phrase, it was this, it was not so much, what you mom and you dad said, it was what you were before our eyes, that molded us, and shaped us, and fashioned us, and the older we get, the more we realize how powerful was the impression of that example. That came through one after another after another. And you dear women, you must be willing to sow in faith and build for the long haul. My mother, 76 years old,

41:43 she heard and saw more fruit of her labors on that Thanksgiving day than she probably has in many, many years all added up on the front end of her life when there was a commitment to these virtues in the home. And all she had to show for it was bags under her eyes and a pile of unfinished work and the slog of being a mother to all those children and seeking to mold the character and keep a cheerful home and keep a sense of humor and all of those things. Now, after all these years, the chickens are coming home through us. And they're clucking with thankfulness for the hen that set an example. But you see, this is the instant gratification, instant fulfillment, instant identity age. You dear young mothers, you must settle it that you will probably have about 20 years of relatively thankless labor except from your husband who will appreciate it.

42:52 And I hope he has sense enough and grace enough to tell you all the time how much he appreciates it. Otherwise, if you don't settle that you're willing to labor, for the most part, probably for around 20 years, with very, very little to show for your labor, you're going to cop out and choose something that's an alternative and more attractive. Because it promises something more quickly in which you can, quote, become your own person, whatever that means. Find your own identity, whatever that means.

43:27 So the most natural forum in which to fulfill Titus II is a mother to her daughters. And I plead with you, dear young mothers, to cry to God as my own mother did, Lord, put holy blinders on me. Give me a vision for the mission field that is here in my four walls, for the opportunity of evangelism here within my four walls. Lord, help me to know and remember what I'm doing.

44:06 I'm building men and women and future servants of Christ and mothers and fathers. Lord, give me a single eye to what I'm doing. And you mothers will need to cry to God for it, because there are a thousand pressures, both to demean that role and to pull you away to something that appears more attractive and more fulfilling. How many glamour girls and career girls would give their right arm to a bin where my mother sat this past Thursday with all of her children and grandchildren rising up and calling her blessed. But she had to be willing to pay the price. That's the most natural avenue that's open. And we bless God that it's evident that many of you young mothers see that, give yourself to it, and so I'm not so much exhorting or admonishing as I am encouraging you to press on and to abound more and more.

Other Avenues: Informal Interaction and Initiative

45:19 So there's the most natural. All right? What are some of the other avenues open to all older women to influence younger women and for younger women to embrace the influence of the older women according to this passage? Think of some other avenues.

45:36 The mother-daughter one is the most obvious. All right? Jerry? An older woman to invite the younger women into the home?

45:53 But suppose they got a batch of kids and a batch of responsibilities they can't leave. What might be a better way? All right. But now, if the older woman is a gracious woman, she'll be a woman of humility.

46:09 She won't be a pushy woman. Is she likely to invite herself into your home? To put it very bluntly, Jerry, do you think if you hold your breath waiting for my wife to invite herself into your home, you'll get an invitation before you expire? No.

46:31 No. Okay. So what's it going to take on the part of the younger women? Yeah.

46:41 To take the initiative and say, now, so and so, I may be out of place in asking this, but as a younger woman, it's evident to me that you must have done something right. I've watched you in your gentle demeanor and bearing, and I see clear patterns of the Word of God shaping your life. Would you be willing to come over and spend the morning in the home just to be able to chat together as I go about my chores, to observe how I relate to my children? You may be able to pick up on some things that my husband and I are not picking up on.

47:21 How many of you younger women have ever asked an older woman who, according to this passage, verse 3, manifests these character traits in your judgment, reverent in demeanor, that is an overall bearing that bespeaks godly priestly service unto Christ, who doesn't have a slandering tongue, not addicted to much wine or to much television or to much food, not self-indulgent, lacking in self-control, whose whole demeanor and bearing is an influence to teach good? How many of you have ever taken the initiative to go to such a woman and say, I don't come to flatter you, but I see these character traits in you, and I'd love the opportunity for some interaction with you. Would you be willing or able, would it be possible for you sometime to come over to my home? How many of you have ever done that?

48:28 Would you raise your hand? All right, one, two, three, four, five, good, good. Now, why have not some of the rest of you done it? I think there's a good reason.

48:43 There may be some bad reasons, but I think there's at least one good reason. If a younger woman is herself a gracious woman, marked by humility and not pushy, she feels reluctant to intrude on the schedule of an older woman. So here you have the kind of impasse you have when you've got pre-teens at a social gathering and the boy's on one side and the girl's on the other side. So they have what's called mixer games to try to get them realizing that they don't get poisoned if they get within two feet of one another.

49:22 So maybe what we need to do, and I'm just thinking on this, out loud, because I don't have all the answers. God knows, and I shared with the elders last night, we did have a Saturday night elders meeting last night because we didn't have our meeting on Thursday being Thanksgiving Day, that I just don't, I sense that here's an area where we need more light from God to break some of that awkwardness where there's graciousness and humility and a lack of carnal pushiness on the part of both the older women and the younger women. And so there's there can be this kind of an unmeaning but very real standoff and not enough actual interaction that would be helpful in the older women instructing the younger women by example and in this informal way by answering questions by interacting in these natural ways. So, I would like to suggest that you prayerfully consider perhaps some of you younger women that God would break down some of your reserve and you'd be a little more aggressive in just being generally friendly to the younger women so that you create a climate in which it would make it easier for them to ask you. And you younger women that you prayerfully consider reflecting on those older women

50:50 with whom God has providentially given you a little more contact, a little more so that you would feel natural in approaching them and asking them if they would be willing to spend some time with you. Alright? What's another avenue that is opened according to the word of God? Another avenue that is open to the older women to influence the younger women.

Mutual Exhortation and Rebuke Among Believers

51:23 Their general demeanor and example, personal interaction and we've addressed this a little bit in the last couple of chapters. But I want to ask you a question that is open according to Scripture. Maybe I ought to phrase the question a little differently. Do we all have obligations to one another as believers that make it right for us to speak to one another, to point out one another's mistakes or make us less comfortable with one another? Or, in the general sense, we'd say then this is a generic text. Alright? You want to read it for us?

52:28 Cliff. Hebrews 3, 12 and 13. Take heed brethren, least All right, all of the brethren then have both a mandate and a divine warrant to exhort one another, particularly with a view to neutralizing the horrible, hardening influence of sin in its deceitful nature and power. So that means if a younger woman sees an older woman who is not following the pattern of Titus 3, she should remember, even Titus and Timothy had to remember, that age will affect the manner in which we approach someone. He is, according to 1 Timothy chapter 5, even Timothy is not to rebuke an older man, even though he stands. An older man is deserving of rebuke, but he is to exhort him as a father. The younger man, his peers in age, he can relate to them as brethren.

53:42 It would be cheeky for a younger woman to speak to an older woman in a way that did not show respect for her age, even though she were deserving of exhortation. But given she comes in that proper spirit, the younger women have a responsibility to exhort the older women. Sometimes. Sometimes older women cease to be what Paul says, reverent in demeanor, which takes in appearance and general bearing that is befitting a woman who is set apart unto God.

54:15 Some women, as they get older, because they've been influenced by the world, try to capture and freeze their youthfulness, and so they look ludicrous, dressing 20 years younger. Then their station warrants, and they turn people off who are looking for godly women. Some of you younger women need to point that out and say, I see so-and-so, I see qualities that really draw me out to underluck you to example, but frankly, the manner in which you obviously are trying to capture your appearance as it was when you were 35 is ludicrous. I see so-and-so, I see qualities that really draw me out to underluck you to example, but frankly, the manner in which you obviously are trying to capture your appearance as it was when you were 35 is ludicrous. And it's sending out a message that you're far more preoccupied with externals than a godly woman ought to be. Perhaps that exhortation is in order.

55:15 You might be more sensitive as a younger woman, and certainly you older women. If you see in younger women those things that do not indicate submission to their own husbands, for example, you may be speaking to a younger couple about having them come over to the home. If you see in younger women those things that do not indicate submission to their own husbands, for example, you may be speaking to a younger couple about having them come over to the home. And you sense while the husband is standing right there, the woman does not defer to her husband, she doesn't consult with her husband, she makes the plans like she was calling the shots.

55:45 And you see that happen two or three times, then you have an obligation to take her aside and say, Now, my dear sister, you may in every other area be a model of submissiveness, but you'd never know it from the way you respond when an invitation is given to you and your husband. You don't even look or act like he's there. You say, Oh, sure, we'll come. As though you had unilateral, independent power to make decisions for your husband.

56:11 And you older women need lovingly to exhort in any of these areas where you observe in the younger women behavior that is not in keeping with these seven virtues. Based on Hebrews 3.13, we all have that responsibility to one another. Can you think of one or two other texts that are in this same field?

56:32 Yes, John? All right, that wasn't the text that I was thinking of, but that's an excellent one. Leviticus 19.17,

56:47 dealing with the responsibility that we have in this area of exhortation and rebuke. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart. Thou shalt surely rebuke thy neighbor and not bear sin because of him. And I think a good rule of thumb is this.

57:06 If you observe something that is tangible enough, that you, if you could fall into the sin of speaking about that fault to another person,

57:18 then it's tangible enough for you to speak about it to the person involved.

57:27 Now, if it's a piddling little thing that you wouldn't go to the person involved, but you're just using it as an occasion to gossip, that's your own sin. You've got to deal with that in your own heart. And deal with the ill will that's producing a disposition to gossip, and then you'll have that fervent love that covers, a multitude of faults. But if it is of sufficient substance that you could speak out of genuine concern to another and say, I see this pattern in my sister, in my younger sister, or my older sister in the Lord, then God says failure to go and point out the sin is to manifest a disposition of hatred.

58:07 Two more texts from the New Testament that show that we all have this warrant. And of course, there's the whole biblical doctrine of reproof and rebuke in the book. The book of Proverbs. Oh, our time's gone.

Concluding Thoughts and Homework

58:20 It's 10.30. I'm sorry. I didn't look at the clock.

58:23 Our time's gone. But I was thinking of Romans 15.14. I am persuaded of you that you are full of goodness, full of knowledge, able to admonish one another.

58:35 And the mark of being filled with both knowledge and goodness is that we are both able, and by the grace of God, willing, and a proper spirit to admonish one another. And then Galatians 6 and verse 1. And then what we'll deal with, put on a P.S.

58:55 You can think about this. Give you two homework assignments. They won't take a lot of time. What are the dangers involved?

59:03 Whatever avenue we may use, and we may want to open up some further avenues, what are the dangers that we need to be aware of? And then hopefully as we take up Proverbs 31, I want you to read. I want you to read the passage and ask yourself what specific factors must be present in our minds as we come to interpret Proverbs 31. And the answer is in the opening verses of Proverbs 31.

59:31 Though the virtuous woman is not the subject of the opening verses, the key to understanding the description of the virtuous woman is in the opening verses of the chapter. I want you to hunt until you find that. That key, all right? And then come prepared to hold it up before others.

59:51 And then we'll see if you found the right one. Well, let's pray. Ask the Lord to help us in these things.

59:59 Our Father, we thank you again that we have the Scriptures as a lamp unto our feet and a light to our pathway. And we pray as we have sought this morning to understand precisely what this passage entices, despite its demands of the older women. We ask, Lord, if our understanding is in any measure twisted or distorted that you would give us further light. But if we have rightly understood the passage, we pray that you would enable us, by your grace, to work out its implications in our own life together as a congregation. We pray that there will be an increased measure of God's love for us and of the love of God. We pray that there will be an increased measure of God's love for us and of the love of God. We pray that there will be an increased measure of God's love for us and of the love of God.

60:52 We pray that there will be an increased measure of God's godly influence through the example and informal instruction of the older women in their contact with the younger women. We pray that there would be a greater measure of humility and the part of the younger women to express their need of help in given areas. But our Father, we pray above all else that young and old alike, men and women, that we may ever come to you and to your word, having this complete deposit of your mind and will, knowing that ultimately, by the indwelling of the Spirit and by the word of God in our hands, we are enabled to live a life well-pleasing unto you. We pray for your continued instruction and the aid of your Spirit. We ask through our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

61:52 Amen.