Questions and Answers (Part 2) (Albert Martin)

Introduction: Unanswered Questions and Future Topics

0:01 And I trust profitable discussion period, which arose out of the brief overview of the book of the Revelation, which has engaged our minds for about five Lord's Days, and I felt it would be perhaps in the interest of further light and understanding if we extended that question and answer period, if there are still questions that were burning in your own mind and heart relative to the matters covered in our broad overview of the book of the Revelation begun by Mr. Fisher and completed by myself. Now, one of the questions that we dealt with last week that came out of our discussion based on the book of the Revelation is the question concerning the nature of God's promises. Now, again, let me exhort you of a habit in the past. It's embarrassing enough when folk come late and have to come in. You'll notice I never.

0:56 Look at them. You keep your eyes on me. Will you do that? It takes great discipline when you're up front and you see all this activity.

1:02 And I deliberately, when anyone leaves the service, I always look the other side so they're not embarrassed and others aren't distracted. So just try to keep your eyeballs here, okay? And then we won't lose the train of thought. It takes a little discipline, but for every ounce you exercise, I'm exercising pounds because I see the whole thing going on back here.

1:24 One of the questions was relative. It's relative to the whole subject of the promises of God. How do we relate the promises such as we find in Psalm 90 and 91 concerning the Lord's protection of his people to what's going on to the children of God over there in Southeast Asia, the children of God starving to death in parts of Africa? And I had further reason to believe that that question needs further treatment, and I began some preparation on it.

1:53 But I do not yet feel. That I've been able to give the kind of study necessary to deal with it in any degree of accurate and comprehensive scope. But I'm working on that, and God willing, there will be a future lesson dealing with the whole subject of the promises of God and how we are rightly to embrace them, believe them, plead them before God, and yet accurately face, honestly face some of the real problems connected with the promises. So it's a delicate matter.

2:25 On the one hand, one would never want to be an instrument of devil to discourage faith or to lessen the expectation of God's people beyond the measure of scripture. And on the other hand, you'd hate to be an instrument of presumption and leading God's people into skepticism, having so-called claimed the promises and then having not seen them fulfilled. So it's a very delicate and sensitive area, and I want to be much more thorough in my preparation before I attempt to handle it. So that's just a little preview of what may yet come out of the studies based on the book of the Revelation.

3:02 But do you have further questions? Some of you that were just sitting on the edge of your seat and just about throwing your arm out of joint last week, and I just had to say, sorry, it's 20 minutes till 11. We have to quit. Are there further questions that you've had concerning this broad overview of the book of the Revelation and the seven or eight major lines of emphasis that we extend?

Defining "In the Spirit" in Revelation

3:25 I'm distracted from the book.

3:28 Yes. You may not have much of the great and crisp, but two or three times in the book of Revelation it speaks of, I was in the spirit.

3:37 And I've checked it off the commentary here. Some different feelings as to what that is. What is your feeling of what that verse means? Well, let's look at the references.

3:48 I believe the first one is found in chapter 1, Revelation chapter 1 and verse 10. Perhaps we could back up to verse 9. I, John, your brother and partaker with you in the tribulation and kingdom and patience which are in Jesus, was in the isle that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus. And I was in the spirit on the Lord's day.

4:22 All right. And now let's check the other references. Do you have them offhand, Grove? All right.

4:31 Well, we'll use the center column reference in the ASV, which is usually quite helpful. Chapter 4 and verse 2.

4:41 After these things, verse 1, I saw and behold a door open in heaven and the first voice that I heard, a voice as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, come up hither and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter. After straight way, I was in the spirit and behold, there was a throne set. In heaven. And then chapter 17 and verse 3.

5:10 And he carried me away in the spirit unto the wilderness or into a wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored beast. And then chapter 21 and verse 10. And he carried me away in the spirit to a mountain great and high and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

5:35 You see why I love the. I wasn't smart getting those references. I just matched up the numbers with the letters and it's very, very helpful. And those are the four references.

5:47 And I'm sure they're those. That's a complete list. Usually when they deal with a phrase like this in a book, they'll give you the complete list. Now, let me ask you, what seems to be the thought as we read all four of these references?

6:01 What seems to be to me? It's quite obvious what this being in the spirit has. Uh, what it has to do with bad English, but you know what I mean? All right, Doug, like he wasn't in his normal state of consciousness.

6:21 He's dreaming while he was awake.

6:27 I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think your choice of words is poor. Was there a suspension of his rational faculties? No, he was not in this particular realm. Okay.

6:40 All right. Now, now we're, now we're, now we're moving in the right direction.

6:45 All right. He was brought into confrontation. Confrontation with another world, another dimension of reality.

6:55 Volume, please. Use that apparatus, my brother. Use it now. You've got to preach down there today and those guys will be half asleep.

7:01 This is a good chance to practice. Come on now. Very good.

7:08 Notice the context is used those four times. It's not just coincidence that it's found at the outset of the four visions. All right. That Bob Fisher set out for us.

7:21 All right. Say that again, nice and loud now. Very good. You got your, you're honing in on it.

7:26 All right. Where is it found? At the outset of the beginning. All right.

7:35 So then what does that tell us then about this state of being in the spirit?

Distinguishing "In the Spirit" from Other Phrases

7:53 All right. So the first thing we can say about it is it has some peculiar and distinct connection with these prophetic visions that are given to John by the Lord. Now negatively, can we not say that it is not describing a normal state of Christian experience? When the Bible says, walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

8:18 Now this is what careless Bible study will do. It will take phrases that are identical in the language and say they are identical in meaning. And because all believers are commanded to walk in the spirit, therefore all believers can have visions in the spirit. This kind of sloppy handling of the word of God.

8:37 You see, now I'm not saying this is what Grove has done. I'm just using this as the occasion to illustrate a principle. No. We must determine the meaning of a phrase, if possible, in its context.

8:48 And here we have the advantage not of just one use, but of four usages within the same book. And we have the added advantage because there is a use that is distinctly parallel in each case. It is on the threshold of the opening up of these visions. Now what was the nature of these visions?

9:10 They were a form of what? Revelation? Put a qualifying word in front of it to even underscore it with more power.

9:23 Direct revelation. In other words, they come in the context of God unfolding things directly to John that could not be discovered by any accumulation of natural faculties, even prayerfully employed. So that we may say, I believe with some degree of safety, Grove, that the phrase in the book of the Revelation, in the spirit, is spiritual. Speaking of that peculiar ministry of the Holy Spirit to John, imparting direct revelation, which is to form part of the canon of Holy Scripture.

10:00 So that we have a wonderful demonstration of what Peter tells us is the very nature of the inscripturated revelation, holy men of God spake as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. This in the spirit was not something that he had achieved, or something that he had achieved. It was something that came upon him. Came upon him.

10:20 Just as we have in the Old Testament record when it says, the word of the Lord came to me. The prophet wasn't seeking it. The prophet didn't find it come, as it were, as the fruit of his own meditation. Here was this coming upon him of the word of the Lord.

10:37 Here is this peculiar, this singular ministry of the Holy Spirit in moving upon John, bringing him into the context of direct revelation and revealing things. And revealing things that are then to be part of the written word of God. So that the phrase, in the spirit, is peculiar to John and the circumstances of direct revelation found here. And I would say it is parallel to that which the prophets had when they had revelations from God.

Further Distinctions: David and Praying in the Spirit

11:08 All right. Yes. Yes. Well, in Matthew 23.

11:12 Sorry. 22 verse 41. Our Lord uses the same expression. He said.

11:16 Yes. Now, while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, saying, what think ye of the Christ? Whose son is he? They said unto him, the son of David.

11:21 Excuse me, John. Crank up that volume again. We've got a full house here. Excuse me.

11:25 We're working on you guys. But I've got to work on you on this matter. All right. Come on.

11:29 He's saying unto them, how then does David in the spirit call him Lord, saying, the Lord said unto my Lord, sit down at my right hand and make my name. Yes. You see, here's the point now that Don is making. That when our Lord comes to us, we're going to be called by him.

11:34 We're going to be called by him. We're going to be called by him. He says unto them, how then does David in the spirit call him Lord, saying, the Lord said unto my Lord, sit down at my right hand and make my name. Yes.

11:45 You see, here's the point now that Don is making. When our Lord refers to the writings of David in the Psalms, he says, David, in the spirit, said. So this puts us in that same ballpark, when a man is the vehicle through which direct revelation is coming, or the receptor, and then the conveyor of direct revelation. He is said to be the vehicle.

12:07 in the Spirit in a peculiar and in a very limited sense. Yes, Bob? What was the reference there? Matthew chapter 22 and...

12:14 Matthew 42, 41 through 44. All right, Matthew 22, 41 through 44. Yes, Eugene? How will that difference from praying in the Spirit?

12:26 All right. I know there's a difference, but how? All right, so you see, we've got another phrase found in Ephesians 6, verse 19. Praying with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and there's at least another reference to praying in the Spirit.

12:39 Where is it? Now, you'd better be able to tell me. Jude 20. Jude 20, thank you.

12:45 Pastor Glaze, Jude 20. Building yourselves up in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit. Now we have the phrase in the Spirit attached to praying. Now, does that mean we pray by direct revelation?

12:59 Here is identity of words, but is there identity or similarity of wording? Does it mean identity of thought and meaning?

13:09 Yes or no? No. Could it possibly refer to the fact that we're to pray according to the will of God and the best revelation of the will of God being the Word, that that would correlate since David in the Spirit spoke these words, we pray in the Spirit, you know, making use of these words and the thoughts thereof? All right.

13:30 What you're saying then is that we pray in the Spirit only so far as our praying is based upon that which David and John and Paul and Peter and Mark and Matthew gave to us by direct revelation when they were in the Spirit. Yeah, I think that's a good point to make. But you see, we're not talking about the same kind of influence of the Holy Spirit, even though there is similarity of phraseology, there is not identity of meaning. So praying in the Spirit, means at least praying in terms of that which the Spirit has given to us in the Word of God as a revelation of the will of God. What else is involved in praying in the Spirit in distinction from this in the Spirit phrase in the book of the Revelation?

14:31 All right. In dependence upon the Holy Spirit? Yes, Romans chapter 8. We know not how to pray as we ought the Spirit likewise helpeth our infirmity.

14:42 But you see, we're not talking about the same thing as John being in the Spirit on the Lord's day, being in the Spirit and being taken to the wilderness, in the Spirit being taken to heaven, in the Spirit being taken to a high mountain. So now we've found that there are at least three distinct usages of this similar phrase. Walking in the Spirit, Galatians 5, praying in the Spirit, the references, and John being in the Spirit and in all of this, in all three instances, the meaning is different. So let that be a good practical lesson in your Bible study.

The Importance of Context in Biblical Interpretation

15:18 Don't immediately associate meaning because there is similarity of wording. You end up with all kinds of confusion. Yes, Ralph? Would you say that we should closely examine the context of each usage?

15:32 Absolutely. Absolutely. Examine the context. Catch what dear Professor Murray calls the universe of discourse.

15:41 I like that because it's fresh. And what he's saying is here's our physical universe. Here's our Earth, one little part and one little galaxy in that universe. We may talk about little galaxies with light years spanning them, but there is a universe of discourse.

16:00 Here's a little phrase. Grove asked a question about a little phrase in the book of the Revelation called In the Spirit. So what we attempted to do was to look at the immediate context of each of those phrases and then to see it in the larger context of the book of the Revelation and other passages which speak to the issue. That's the universe of discourse, the setting out of which the phrase arises.

16:27 And you've heard the little phrase, the little saying, and it's right. A text out of context is usually a pretext. God has spoken to us in thought patterns that demand a sensitivity to what I often call in preaching the flow of thought. What is the flow of thought in which this particular verse or phrase or word is found?

16:52 And when we treat the Bible any other way, we're treating it like some kind of a magical book and we end up with all kinds of kookish interpretations of the Scriptures. All right? Yes, Bob? When in the book of Acts they speak of being filled with the Spirit and they spoke in tongues as such, do you say that's the same being in the Spirit as John was in Revelation?

Addressing Charismatic Errors and Careless Interpretation

17:13 It brings us perhaps into the same basic orbit of direct revelation. Yes. But it's not quite the same thing because what they spoke did not become the deposit of the Church in terms of the canon of Scripture. You see, so that we are not identical, but we are in the same ballpark of direct revelation.

17:36 They spoke as the Spirit gave them utterance. The very words they spoke were framed and shaped by the Spirit in a way that the most anointed preacher does not have that degree when he is expounding and applying the Word of God. Yes? Then in the case where they misinterpret the various gifts, what they've done is run these various phrases together to have one universal meaning in the Spirit, filled with the Spirit, baptized in the Spirit.

18:07 This is what Paris is stemming from. Yeah, this is one of the parts. I mean, it's a, as with most things, as with most error, it is not simple, but it is complex. And when you find an error, let this represent error A.

18:22 Generally, error A does not flow from one stream. Let's call it stream one. But each error is usually the result of several streams of incipient error, which when flowing together create this error. And I would say that one of the main streams flowing into much of the error gathering around the modern so-called charismatic or Pentecostal movement, Neo-Pentecostal, which is just a fancy way of saying new Pentecostalism, but it isn't new.

19:02 It's just standard old-time Pentecostalism. You can trace it right back to heresies that emerged early in the history of the Church. Well, one of the major reasons that they've come to this point or major causes is a carelessness in the handling of such phrases as in the Spirit. Very much so.

19:22 I had the classic example of this kind of thing. I think I've alluded to it, but perhaps I could give a little more detail when I was at Gordon with this young woman who was convinced she was a prophetess. I mean, she looked me straight in the eye without the slightest bit of embarrassment. And I said, well, how do you know?

19:41 She said, God has spoken. I said, you mean God has spoken? Yes. I mean, just like God spoke to Jeremiah and Isaiah?

19:46 Yes, of course. That's how he called them to the prophetic office. That's how he called me. Until finally, I just had to shake my head and say, now, young lady, you are so woefully and pathetically ignorant of the most elementary principles of biblical interpretation that I cannot carry on an intelligent conversation.

20:05 I would need hours to teach you the nature of the prophetic office, how it fits into the scheme of revelation. I'd need to give you a basic course in biblical theology, progressive revelation, and I just gave her an earful to let her know how ignorant she was. That was after I had tolerated her for a whole one-hour discussion period earlier in which she kept interrupting and I was very sweet with her. I kept addressing her as dear and trying desperately not to show my inward feelings as hard as her.

20:39 But then when it seemed like she was determined to come on the second day and just ruin the whole thing, I said, I finally just had to do what the scripture says, answer the fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own conceits. And that finally put her to rest. But figuratively, not sure.

20:58 But you see here again, was there a problem when she would read the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah? Well, my name's not Jeremiah, but the word of the Lord can come to me exactly the same way. If I have Jeremiah's God, I can have Jeremiah's voices, you see. Well, this shows again the tremendous problem that comes from not sorting out these things that differ.

21:19 And that's why, you see, Peter had to say in his own day, and this is a great encouragement to me. It's heartbreaking, but it's encouraging at the same time. Peter could say that even in his day, people were taking some of the writings of a fellow apostle that were hard to be understood and the ignorant and the unstable were resting them. That is, twisting them.

21:44 The Greek verb there has as its root meaning to put on a rack, a torture rack, and to stretch it out of shape. They were stretching the scriptures to their own destruction. Now, if they did that while apostles who wrote those words were yet living, how much more should we expect this now that they're not even around, as it were, to correct these deflections, though their writings comparing scripture with scripture are indeed adequate to correct them. We believe that the only infallible interpreter of scripture is scripture itself.

22:19 But this is one of the problems, and that's why we must be very, very careful when we read the scriptures that whenever we see similarity of terminology and phraseology, we do not immediately assume there is identity of meaning. One of the brethren was asking me last week or two weeks ago about the whole concept of leaven. For years, it was common in most evangelical circles to take the principle of leavening and to take the principle of leavening in the position that because leaven had a typological significance of evil in the Old Testament, they were to purge out the leaven from their households prior to the keeping of the Passover. Therefore, when you read in the New Testament the admonition in 1 Corinthians to purge out the old leaven of hypocrisy, leaven everywhere in the Bible speaks of evil. So when you read Jesus' parable that the kingdom of heaven is like unto a woman who hides leaven in the loaf until it permeates the whole, they say that means, you see, the working of error and heresy and apostasy will begin in small dimensions and it will increase until there's barely a shred of anything real left upon the face of the earth. Well, you see, it's taking similarity of phraseology and assuming identity of meaning in every case. And that's not the teaching of that parable.

23:38 The teaching of that parable is that what begins very small and inconspicuously will have a meaning and an effect upon the whole even as the small mustard seed becomes the tree in which the birds of the air lodge and find their resting place. So this is a good principle to remember. Now we've gotten far afield from the book of the Revelation but that's sort of the nature of this class anyway. If we hook into something that is of general help and edification why we'll trace it out for a bit.

The Amillennial Interpretation of Old Testament Land Promises

24:10 All right, can we lay that matter to rest now? Is that satisfactory? You've got to start it on all this. We'll come back to you and see if you're willing to end it.

24:20 All right, very good. All right, further questions now that maybe some of you forgot but there were two or three of you just chomping at the bit when we had to cut things off last week. Further questions? Yes, Eugene?

24:34 Well, how about if you're... Well, anyway.

24:38 That's a great question.

24:42 I think we'd go for three hours on that one. Since we are speaking of Revelation I was a little bit concerned when I was trying to...

24:56 When I was reading Ezekiel and the promises of the land and so forth and so we spoke here about so-called millennium according to the pre-millennial view and I was asking myself how would these promises fit into the... amillennialist system?

25:20 All right, the promises in which God speaking to ancient Israel speaks in terms of a land, in terms of a restored temple, etc. Is this your question?

25:32 Well, not much the temple but the land. I didn't read the part of the temple. Yeah, but oftentimes they're joined together so you can't have one without the other. Now, that's very, very significant in our interpretation.

25:45 For instance, let's turn... You see Eugene's question.

25:49 Well, maybe some of you don't because he used some terminology that may not have rung. But let me try to put his question here on the board.

25:59 In the Old Testament we come across certain promises given to the nation of Israel which speak of certain future blessings in terms of repossessed land, the restoration of... The purity of worship.

26:24 Of course, that would involve the temple, sacrifices, etc. Now, Eugene's question is in the...

26:34 And I'm terribly sorry it's had to come about this way but I'm sure we're not going to turn back church history and reconstruct it so with reluctance I'll use the term. In the so-called amillennial system of interpreting prophecy which is simply saying that there is no...

26:55 of thousands upon the earth prior to or after the coming of Jesus Christ in glory and in power but rather these prophecies to Israel concerning future blessing are fulfilled now and will yet be fulfilled in the power of the gospel bringing... being the instrument of God in bringing the completed church to pass or bringing to pass a completed church.

27:26 When we read then of the restored temple worship and sacrifices what we have is God speaking of spiritual blessing in the only terminology that the Jews would understand namely the terminology of their own religious worship system sacrifice, etc. Now, the question which Eugene has is how then do we understand those promises in which we have such strong emphasis upon the land? Is it right to say they have purely a spiritual fulfillment? Well, I think the basic answer to that, Eugene is to see if we have any clues in the New Testament as to how those promises which involved the land, etc. are interpreted by the apostles and the New Testament writers. And if we see that they have no problem quote, spiritualizing spiritualizing, I don't like the term. I think it's terribly unfortunate but I'll use it because it's used.

28:31 I can't turn back church history and scrub it out of all the books and all the commentators. But they have no problem doing what most premillennialists accuse an omelette of doing namely spiritualizing the Old Testament promises. Well, you see, it's not a matter of spiritualizing it's ascertaining their proper intent. And if their intent was to speak of future gospel books in terms of these physical things then it's not spiritualizing it's properly understanding them to say they are now fulfilled in the gospel and in the church of Jesus Christ.

New Testament Fulfillment of Old Testament Promises (Ezekiel & Jeremiah)

29:12 Alright, now let's look at one or two examples of this, alright? Turn, please, if you will to the book of Ezekiel chapter 36. Ezekiel chapter 36 and where should we be? Well, God says he's going to do some wonderful things for his people and though they've been dispersed among the countries and the nations God is going to be jealous for his own name verse 21 but I had regard for my holy name which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations whither they went. Therefore, verse 22 of Ezekiel 36 Therefore say to the house of Israel Thus saith the Lord God I do not this for your sake O house of Israel but for my holy name's sake which you've profaned among the nations whither you went. I will sanctify my great name which has been profaned among the nations which you've profaned in the midst of them and the nations shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. I will take you from among the nations gather you out of all the countries bring you into your own land I will sprinkle clean water upon you and ye shall be clean

30:39 and from your filthiness and your idols I'll cleanse you. A new heart will I give you a new spirit will I put within you I'll take away the heart of stone give you a heart of flesh. Verse 28 Ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers ye shall be my people and I will be your God. Now you see what he's doing?

30:57 He's promising tremendous future blessing. Now it's spiritual. He says I'll take out the heart of stone I'll put my spirit within you but it's also bound up with the land. You notice the references to the land, to the land.

31:10 Now this is one of the pivotal prophecies concerning the new covenant and the blessings of the new covenant. Turn back to Jeremiah keeping this passage in mind. Jeremiah 31 another key passage concerning the new covenant. Jeremiah 31 31 should be an easy reference to remember you've got the double 31.

31:29 Jeremiah 31 31 Behold the days come saith the Lord I'll make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt which my covenant they break although I was in husbandhood unto them saith the Lord. But this is the covenant that I'll make with the house of Israel after those days. Notice it seems it's exclusively addressed to the house of Israel.

32:02 House of Jacob. I will, house of Judah. I will put my law in their inward parts and on their heart will I write them. I will be their God and they shall be my people.

32:13 They shall teach no more every man his neighbor every man his brother saying know the Lord for they shall all know me from the least of them to the greatest saith the Lord for I will forgive them and I will forgive their iniquities and their sin will I remember no more. Thus saith the Lord who giveth the sun for a light by day and the ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night who stirreth up the sea that the waves thereof roar the Lord of hosts is his name. If these ordinances depart from before me saith the Lord then shall the seed of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever. Thus saith the Lord if heaven can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath then will I cast off all the seed of Israel for that they have done saith the Lord. Behold the days come saith the Lord that the city shall be built to the Lord from the tower of Hanel to the tower of the corner and the measuring line shall go out etc. Here we come back again you see to the territorial conquest all mingled in with these promises. Now how do the New Testament writers understand those promises?

33:22 Do they? Encourage us to believe that we should look forward to some future fulfillment in the land when God will literally in a place that can be geographically proscribed in the Middle East actually gather his people together and then do these things that he has mentioned or do the New Testament writers indicate that these promises have and are having their fulfillment in Jesus Christ in Jesus Christ and in the conquest of the gospel among all the nations. Well there's no question with regard to these prophecies of the New Covenant because when we turn to the book of Hebrews when we turn to the book of Hebrews we find two explicit references to these promises in Jeremiah and alluded to in Ezekiel verse 7 of chapter 8 in Hebrews for if that the first covenant had been faultless then would no place have been sought for a second for finding fault with them he saith and now here is a direct quotation from Jeremiah 31 verses 31 and following he's quoting now all the way from verse 8 through verse 12 now he concludes in verse 13 in that he saith a new covenant he hath made the first old

34:49 but that which is becoming old and waxeth aged is nigh unto vanishing the way he saith saying the transition from the old to the new is going on right before your very eyes Christ has come and is the fulfillment of all of these promises and of course the time was near for the very tearing down of that external symbol of the old the final external symbol of the old covenant namely the temple in Jerusalem and the Lord had prophesied that not one stone should be left upon another turning over to Hebrews 10 we find essentially the same thing speaking of the perfection of the sacrifice of Christ verse 14 of Hebrews 10 for by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified and the Holy Spirit bears witness to us for after that he saith this is the covenant that I'll make with them after those days saith the Lord I'll put my laws on their heart and upon their minds will I write them and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more now where remission of these is there is no more offering for sin he is arguing from the fulfillment of these promises to the present need of these Hebrew Christians and you find similar interpretations of these prophecies in the book of Romans in the book of the Acts and then many allusions in other portions of the word of God so without going into a whole dissertation

New Testament Fulfillment of Old Testament Promises (Revelation & Romans)

36:18 on this Eugene I think the key to the answer lies in asking how does the New Testament interpret the Old Testament prophecies and I think you'll come up with the conclusion that number one many of them are interpreted as having present fulfillment in the gospel age then you'll come to a second conclusion if you take the book of the Revelation series there is no book in the New Testament as full of Old Testament terminology and phraseology as the book of the Revelation one commentator has counted all of the references to phrases and not concepts but actual phrases extracted from the Bible from the Old Testament that are found in the book of the Revelation and I've forgotten what the number is but it is up into multiples of the hundreds now the figure 400 of something comes to my mind I'll have to try to track that down and it's an interesting thing that many of the prophecies particularly in the book of Isaiah in which God speaks of tremendous future blessing for his people those latter chapters of Isaiah you find direct quotations in the book of the Revelation in which God speaks with reference to the eternal state the state of the redeemed that John envisions beginning with chapter oh really with chapter 21 1 the latter part of that third vision all the way through to chapter 22 and verse 5 and if you just take

37:47 your American Standard Bible and look up the references you'll find that many of them have their roots right there in phraseology from the prophecy of Isaiah and other of the Old Testament prophets so that we find the fulfillment of these either in the blessings of the gospel now being dispensed by the Lord Jesus who sits upon David's throne according to Acts chapter 2 and Acts chapter 13 and many portions in the apostolic preaching Christ is now the son of David upon David's throne administering the sure mercies of David which are gospel blessings and any of those prophecies some of those prophecies will have their fulfillment in the eternal state now in all fairness it must be said that there are responsible learned godly commentators who feel that there is a third option or dimension of this fulfillment namely that God may yet do some peculiar things for Israel as a nation in the way of gospel blessing not some semi-Jewish future half gospel half legal state but they see in Romans 11 particularly that God may yet some will go so far as to say God shall actually pour out his spirit upon great portions

39:15 of ethnic Israel so that multitudes of those who are Jews according to the flesh will be saved and that perhaps with that will come some dimension of material blessing which would bring even a greater fulfillment of some of the promises connected with the land now I personally don't accept that third dimension but in all fairness I must say that there are godly astute learned Bible commentators who do but who would be first to assert it has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of a semi-Jewish theocracy in which you know the whole concept generally associated with the millennium yes Bob they would say that that has a they use a double fulfillment right yes that is perfectly fulfilled now how can you can you show me some examples that could refute something like that well I put the thing back on them and say you proved to me hermeneutically and from the apostolic interpretation of prophecies you show me that this double fulfillment concept is a valid one in other words they're making an assertion whenever I assert the onus is on me to prove the validity of my assertion you see

Hermeneutical Principles for Prophecy: Known to Unknown

40:44 I've asserted this morning that the phrase in the spirit does not always mean the same thing well the onus was on me to turn you to scriptures which would demonstrate that that assertion was not just ecclesiastical wind you see that it had some substance to it so when people say well double fulfillment some measure of spiritual fulfillment now but I say well you show me from the scriptures the warrant for this concept of double fulfillment and I think we must put the onus on them in love but put it there nonetheless alright yes Bob apart from the third dimension you spoke of with the physical blessings of the land is there a way with which you can show me how the land blessings that he speaks of in the Old Testament are as such fulfilled in the gospel of age apart from this third dimension which you yeah well I think it's the principle that Fairbairn the great Scottish theologian in his book Principles of Interpreting Prophecy which by the way was written after 25 years of intense study in the subject of prophecy in which he moved from the position that many espouse today to the position that would be found in the reflected perhaps in the third or in that which would embrace all three of the principles that I've mentioned

42:13 and Fairbairn I think demonstrates in a very conclusive way that whenever God speaks to his people he speaks to them in terms of the known in order to reveal the unknown so if God is speaking to a people whose blessing from God is presently attached to a land to a land to a temple to the nations coming to that land and to that temple and seeing its visible its earthly glory how is God to convey to them that better days are coming well he's going to use the stuff of where they live and what is the stuff of where they live land temple sacrifice nations glory conquering your enemies so God is simply using the device that all of us use in teaching continually we go from the known to the unknown so that I have no problem with that with that whole concept and that's the fallacy you see of the people who say alright since God predicts they say in the first century in the book of the revelation he's predicting some of these visions tremendous upheavals and conflicts among the nations well in what terms is he going to do that in the first century did they have atom bombs did they have M14 tanks did they have

43:40 I mean did they have M1 rifles so God talks in terms of the battle instruments of the first century he talks about horses he talks about chariots he talks about the things that fall the life experience of those to whom the message originally comes and this is why it's really such irresponsible exegesis and commentary upon some scripture to say well you see here's this and this and that refers to airplanes the things that have the sting in their tail and in their noses and you know this kind of thing that's bombers and some of the most ridiculous stuff and one man is very very very very convinced that when it says the blood shall flow to the horses bridles he's actually had a head count of how many horses are owned by the Russian army and therefore when the Russians come down into the Middle East and they're going to and make an attack upon the city of Jerusalem they'll actually do so not with tanks etc. but they're going to do so with horses because the Bible says the blood shall flow to the horses bridle and well you see this is failure to recognize this fundamental principle alright so what they're doing is they're mixing what they call that literalist interpretation with regard to the land

45:08 with the proper understanding of scriptural interpretation yeah and it's basically they're having to a hermeneutical problem you see it's basically in the whole matter of how do you interpret the language of Holy Scripture and it's forcing you see the whole idea that says literal unless otherwise indicated so well suppose God is speaking to me in figurative language if I say go fly a kite I say that to someone who says look you want to place a bet on such and such a horse at aqueduct tomorrow I say get out of here man go fly a kite now I literally mean what go out and get a little paper thing with sticks and oh now I literally mean get away from me don't bother me now I'm speaking literally I'm incorporating a figure of speech and if he presses my language into a wooden kind of literalism you know he may go out and fly his kite for five minutes and come back and say you're ready to place the bet and I say look didn't you get my message I said go fly a kite I'm not interested see well that's a humorous illustration but it emphasizes this same thing when God said I'll bring you into the land and I'll do this and the rest what was he conveying and the interesting thing is and this has really struck me in the recent reading of Hebrews

46:36 that even the Jews to whom the promise of a land had a literal fulfillment Abraham and others to whom God said I'll bring you I'll Abraham went out not knowing whether he went and God said you go on out you go on out you go on out you go on out and I'll bring you into a land that I shall yet show you they even saw beyond a blessing of the immediate literal and where was their hope set it says they looked for a city which hath foundations whose builder and maker was God they even saw beyond the literal as merely a token as it were of the true inheritance which was the imperishable city of God the church of Jesus Christ Abraham rejoiced to see what some real estate in Palestine no Abraham rejoiced to see my day that's what brought rejoicing to Abraham he rejoiced to see my day what did Moses see choosing to suffer affliction with the people of God which he considered what the reproach of the Christ which was greater riches than the treasures of Egypt you see if his hope was carnal earthly why then he had to have all of that in Egypt but he saw that there was something beyond that the inheritance that the Christ would bring to him alright yes what do you make of the surprising

The Reestablishment of the State of Israel

48:05 reestablishment of the state of Israel that's supposed to be almost miraculous or very unusual and was taken by very many to be fulfillment of prophecy you all understand Priscilla's question what do we do with what happened in 1948 when the state of Israel was reestablished well I don't know I don't think there's any responsibility on me to make anything of it except to keep my eyes open I don't know I don't see anything I don't see now you ask me what do I make so I'll answer personally I do not see anything in scripture that warrants me to give any authoritative significance to the reestablishment of the state of the nation of Israel because you see one of the tremendous questions that a person has to wrestle with is what constitutes a man a true Israelite what Jew can produce a pedigree that really establishes him as one of the ten one of the sons of the twelve tribes of Israel that's a problem is Mr. Clark here this morning yeah Paul would you just mention what you shared with me a couple of weeks ago about that the trouble that some have had in this area the question what is a Jew is one of the most debated questions among Jews themselves and a Jewish friend told me that during the Middle Ages there were old tribes that in Eastern Europe

49:34 embraced Judaism what we would call Gentile tribes and they embraced Judaism and ethnically many of the Jews today are not descendants of Abraham but descendants of Gentile tribes who embraced Judaism as a religion so you see we've got some real problems here and that's why I think holy caution is in order keep our eyes open just as we keep our eyes open with what God is doing in Southeast Asia and what God was pleased to do in Indonesia a few years ago you see I think we need to keep our eyes open and if God if God has gathered many of those who would be true Jews after the flesh in Palestine so that there would be this geographical grouping in anticipation of a mighty outpouring of the spirit that will sweep many of them into the kingdom then I shall say hallelujah I mean