Question and Answer Session

Identifying and Respecting a Brother's Conscience

0:05 Now, one of the questions that I do think bears some comment, and I don't have it before me, but I have the substance of it in my head, pertains to an aspect of the whole doctrine of Christian liberty that I tried to touch on when we were dealing with the subject, but apparently sometimes either you're taking notes or your mind is distracted by a fly on the wall or something, sometimes we can miss a certain thrust, and it has to do with this whole matter of how do we know, yes. VNF 597, your lights are on. VNF 597. Chrysler, New Yorker, white.

0:51 It has reference to this whole matter of how we can identify the particular status of our brother's conscience. For instance, in all of those passages in Romans 15, and again in 1 Corinthians 8, and in 1 Corinthians, 10, if brother A here is the stronger brother with reference to things indifferent, and brother B is the weaker brother, brother A in his relationship to B in the fulfillment of his responsibilities, and brother B in his relationship to A

1:35 must be able somehow to identify each other, which means that there is some communication between them with reference. To the particular status of their conscience in these things. For instance, if brother A is walking in love to brother B, he does not want to greet him, he does not want to cause him to stumble, and he is willing to forego, as Paul says, if meat makes my brother to offend, I'll eat no meat while the world stands, I will neither eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything whereby my brother is offended or is caused to stumble. Well, the clear indication, the clear indication is that Paul cannot voluntarily relinquish

2:19 the exercise of his liberty unless he knows that brother B, in whose presence he is, has this particular problem of conscience. And therefore, it is essential that there be openness between brethren in the assembly with reference to these matters, and sometimes an explicit questioning of one another.

2:42 For instance, you might, as an act of kindness, maybe some of you, to put it in a concrete situation. Some of you might be looking forward to the Christmas holiday, at which time you're planning to take your children to Radio City Music Hall to see a special children's film. Maybe they're going to have a rerun of Bambi or something else. All right?

3:02 And so, as an act of kindness, you say to one of your brothers or sisters in the assembly, look, I'm taking the family in to see Bambi, would you like to go along with us?

3:15 Well, if you have scruples, it's about attending any kind of a commercial motion picture theater. How in the world is your brother or sister going to know that? Here they are trying to do something to his kindness. And you could equivocate and say, well, and then very quickly make up some other plans in the subconscious so you're not exactly lying when you say, well, I've got other plans, etc.

3:36 Well, in this, then, you see boils in your spirit and your brother or sister trying to show love. The next time it's convenient to do so, they ask a similar question. Well, you've just got to say, well, I really appreciate the expression of your thoughtfulness. However, I just have problems of conscience about attending any kind of a commercial motion picture institution.

3:59 I'm glad you can go with a good conscience, but I want you to know that I just have problems in that area and I just could not feel that I was honoring them. So, Brother A says, well, that's wonderful and then seeks to find another channel by which to show his love and his concern and sense of love. You see, that's a sensitivity to Brother B. But Brother B has got to let them know what his problem is in that area, you see, so that this may come to pass in situations where, again, if someone's in your home, you don't know they're a vegetarian and here you've planned a wonderful meal and you put the food on the table and you, maybe you sit at the head of the table, maybe it's a hot dish with meat in it and the head of the house is serving it.

4:43 Well, if there's not some kind of communication, you see, there's going to be real problems when you're in the house. Your food is put on the plate, and then you're wrestling with, boy, I don't want to offend my host by not eating, but if I do eat, it'll bother my conscience because I can't eat meat with a good conscience. What in the world do I do? Well, you ought to have communicated beforehand.

5:01 And when you had the invitation to the meal, you just should have said, now look, I don't want to be embarrassing to anyone in the rest, so when my plate is served, just put everything on there but the meat because I have problems with eating meat, and I don't want to make anybody else feel uncomfortable or awkward, etc. And so you get that all taken care of. But again, there's got to be the communication between residents so that there can be the proper response based upon the knowledge of where the other one is. Does that help to clarify it for whoever asked the question?

Communication and Sensitivity in Matters of Liberty

5:32 Now, does that open up a can of worms and further questions? Is that clear? Yes, Louise. Well, when Karen heard these bells on from college for Thanksgiving, they were all covenanters.

5:43 What would you do in a situation like that? The whole week they were there. We had others. People went to Thanksgiving.

5:48 Would it be wrong to serve, or would it be right to ask them openly and trust that they were interested? Yes. For instance, those who are many of the folk who are of the Reformed Presbyterian, not the Evangelical, but Reformed Presbyterian Church of America, they're called the covenanters. For short, they call each other covies.

6:08 That's their nickname. Oh, you're a covey, or he's a covey pastor. And the Geneva College, where some of our young people attend, is the official. The liberal arts college of the covies, of the Reformed Presbyterian Church in America, the covenanters.

6:23 All those terms that you hear, they're all synonymous. And many of them have a teetotaling position with reference to alcoholic beverages. Now, here's a case where if someone would be emboldened to go against his conscience by social pressure, for example, that total abstinence in their presence would be the part of Christian love. However, in many situations like that, a person is not going to be emboldened to follow the example.

6:52 It's good, then, I think, privately to say, would you find it a problem if we were to serve some wine at this special meal? And if they seem to get unhinged by it and the rest, well, then you just back off. But if they understand the doctrine of Christian liberty, their answer will be, why, of course not, go right ahead. If wine is not a particular problem to them, where they might be emboldened to indulge against their conscience, or feel social pressure, then, here again, there's got to be communication.

7:24 I've been in situations where people have said, would you be offended if I did thus and thus? I said, no, you go right ahead. They won't offend me at all. Would you be grieved?

7:33 Would this be an occasion of stupor to you? I said, no, you go right ahead. No problem at all. But the very fact that the question is asked shows there's that awareness of sensitivity and desiring to walk in love.

7:46 And that's what's so vital in these relationships. That we make it evident to one another that we are concerned about the influence of our conduct in the presence of our brethren. We don't have an irresponsibility, an irresponsible individualism that says, well, what I do is just between me and the Lord. Well, it isn't.

8:06 There is this effect that we have none lives to himself, none dies to himself. We not only live and die to the Lord, as Paul says, but in the context of Christian liberty, we live in the presence of each other. Is that...

Distinguishing Personal Conviction from Universal Law

8:19 Is that... Is that...

8:19 Answer the question, please.

8:23 Yes. I'm wondering about the person that can't do something.

8:30 He feels it's wrong to do it. Wrong for whom? Yeah. He feels it's wrong.

8:35 He feels it's wrong, period. For whom? Well, you see, the point is,

8:41 if I feel it's wrong, I feel it's wrong. For whom? Right. Then you have the law of God to support.

8:50 The point... Yeah.

9:02 Would you like to go to... If I say...

9:05 Well, then you haven't understood the doctrine of Christian liberty. Well, the point is, or whatever, but somehow when I say, no, I can't...

9:39 All you say is, that is wrong, and add two words.

9:46 One a preposition, and one a personal pronoun.

9:51 That is wrong for...

9:55 Now, if it's a... You believe a brother is doing something that violates the clear teaching of the Word of God, now you have an obligation and love to exhort him, lest he be heartened through the deceitfulness of sin.

10:10 But then the onus is on the one who makes that assertion, you see. So that, for instance, here's someone, I know some people who absolutely take an inflexible position. Cellulose passing through a machine called a projector that is in any way housed in a building that is commercially owned and operated is per se sin without any exception whatsoever. I mean, that's...

10:40 That's their mental cast. Now, if they're convinced of that, as committed to righteousness, then they must want to see sin dealt with. Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. They would put cellulose passing through a projector within the walls of a commercial establishment in every instance, without exception, is sin.

11:05 Well, then they have a responsibility and love to try to exhort their brother. Now, the moment they start to do that, if they're dealing, with an intelligent brother who understands his Bible, one of two things is going to happen. They're either going to go away and say he's carnal, he doesn't want to listen to light, in which case he's violating the principle of Christian liberty and judging his brother, or he's going to see that his position is wrong and is simply an addition of a man's precept that goes beyond the word of God. So that, if we just add those words, brother, I really appreciate that.

11:41 I appreciate that expression of your love to me. I mean, just like there are times when I've been in an airplane, when people offered me a cigarette or a cigar. I haven't said, no, I don't smoke, I feel of sin. I say, I appreciate your thoughtfulness, but I'd rather not.

11:55 There was a time when I would have gladly done so. You know, and I say that to them, but I don't push them down. I try to see what lies behind that offer. It's sensitivity to my need, even if it's something that I can indulge in, even with the unconverted.

12:11 That's the critical thing, bro. And I have no sense in my heart that I'm judging a brother when he asks me, would I like to do this or go here? If it's a doing something or a going someplace for which my conscience does not give me liberty, I can really say before God, I don't pass judgment on him.

12:32 For instance, I don't know who, but I understand recently just came up in a conversation somewhere that a group of our people went to, I think, the paper mill playhouse to see Annie Get Your Gun. I would feel very, very uncomfortable in that situation. But I can honestly say if every one of those who went should right now identify himself, my attitude towards them and my esteem of them will not be affected one iota because I say that might be wrong for me under a given set of circumstances. See?

13:07 And it's the ability to say wrong for me, but to give them their liberty to believe that they went and spent that evening together with thanks to God and for all I know gathered in a room, a home afterward and gave thanks to God for the evening and fine. That's the emphasis Paul gives. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord for he giveth God thanks. He that eateth not, he eats what he does eat to the Lord and gives God thanks.

13:31 So that's the critical element. For me,

13:37 I don't think I've convinced you yet. How do you say no without making somebody else feel uncomfortable? Yeah. Well, I think just in those ways.

13:48 I mean, I'm trying to put it in as concrete a situation as I know. Brother, I appreciate that expression of your love to me and if you can do that before the Lord, the Lord bless you in it, but I just feel I couldn't and so I'm going to decline as a matter of conscience for me. But I want you to know, brother, in no way do I try to project my conscience into your breast.

14:12 And I've done that on a number of occasions with various things. I shouldn't say a number, but enough to know that I've never seen anyone get offended with that.

Love, Not a Double Standard, Dictates Diverse Actions

14:23 Okay? Yes. Robert. We were talking about the fact that I'm a Christian How do you get you're saying, well, I don't see anything wrong with but I feel that I'm being a hypocrite by changing my standard with different people or not changing with some people or putting it away out of my refrigerator and hiding it with different people.

14:52 You know. Yeah.

14:56 The whole problem in time of a double standard. But it isn't a double standard. But that's a good question. Someone else asked me that at the beginning at the door after one of the sessions on Christian liberty.

15:10 Is it a double standard? Here we are in the presence of this brother. Here's a person who has his table. And on his table he has a bottle of Matus.

15:26 All right? A Matus bottle. Okay.

15:33 All right. Here's the front door.

15:38 Now, this particular brother may be a relative who has a very strong teetotaling problem. Fundamentalist mentality background. You're not around them to show them the whole context. You know that you'd just be raising their hackles to even try to discuss the thing.

15:53 So you go to the door, your meal's all prepared, and you have a surprise as I did the other night thinking I was letting in someone who had an appointment to come counsel with me at four and asked through my father. I mean, this does happen.

16:05 So what do you do? Your concern is if I tell the wife grab the bottle of Matus and go stick it under the...

16:13 under the stored-up blankets up in the bedroom closet.

16:20 This particular person comes, shares your meal, and two hours later some brother comes and you know would like this little glass of Matus and you send your wife back up the hallway out and put it back on the table. You say, isn't that hypocritical, double standard? No, it isn't. It is the diversity of operation from the base of a biblical standard because you do not relate to people as generic people, that is, people in general.

16:48 Discerning that in this instance there would be offense, then you are not going to offend in the presence of that particular person. But if the next person who comes is one who will not be offended in that thing, but this would be a further expression of your love and of your desire to provide something special for them, then love dictates a different action. That's not a double standard. It is one standard of love.

17:14 But love does not always do the same thing in every situation. Ah, but someone says that's situation ethics. Well, it is the biblical aspect of situation ethics. The difference between us and the Fletchers and the others who talk about situation ethics is that our ethic is rooted in the law of God and in the eternal primoral principles of the word of God.

17:37 We say there is a basis of moral absolutes. But in the outworking of those absolutes, love does not always do the same thing in the same situation. For instance, here's a person that just loves shellfish. Love may dictate that when that person comes, your wife provides her casserole.

17:58 I'm allergic to shellfish. I forget it when it's served to me and just hope nothing happens. But if you knew that, love would dictate whatever you prepare for me. You don't prepare shellfish.

18:09 Now, is that double standard? No. It just shows that love cuts a different channel in terms of its knowledge of the object.

Indifference to Pharisaical Judgment

18:18 Yes? What should be our relationship with the glass of wine? I was running over there and one time we said, well, I'll have to say eight of those instances. Yeah.

18:34 Are you trying to provide the right for them? Well, here we come to the delicate line where I think it was Calvin who said we have no obligation to kowtow to Pharisees.

18:48 Now, he didn't say kowtow. And that's not the correct way to pronounce it. It used to be the dictionary was kowtow, I think, but we say kowtow, so you'd wonder what I was saying if I said in essence this is what he was saying. We have no obligation to jump every time a Pharisee barks.

19:06 And I think whether or not you would have served wine to relatives in that situation had to be based on larger principles.

19:16 There are certain situations where it would be an insult to people if it were not so. You know, we've been at some of the weddings that some of our young people had unconverted parents and others and on principle they had a little champagne served. Simply, because they felt certain principles would have been violated and they were weighing all the principles that love reflects to, you see. And I think in that instance, Louise, that's something that you have to determine before the Lord.

19:43 But we need not be overly upset about the frowns of Pharisees. Never forget the instance of our Lord when a converted Pharisee invited him to his home. Jesus went,

19:57 ate and drank what was put before him so much so that when the Pharisees looked through the window they said look at it. A glutton and a wine bibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. Jesus did not back down and say well I'm sorry I've offended you fellas and you know tickle his throat and get rid of the food and say I'll keep better company from now on. He said look you, if you understood what was taught in the Old Testament when God said I will have mercy and not sacrifice you'd be more concerned with me the son of man showing mercy to sinners than you would be about all this hang up on the externals and there are times when we need to be utterly indifferent about our reputation before Pharisees.

20:41 We're talking about our relationship to brothers.

20:45 Now if you're in a situation where you know someone has a kosher mentality Paul says alright I don't eat non-kosher food. Alright there's another set of things with reference to the unsaved but we need not trouble ourselves and we can please every Pharisee who thinks that his separatist standard that goes far beyond the scriptures is the rule that he has a right to imposed upon everyone. Don't let him do it. At that point that's Paul with Titus saying we gave place no not for now and there comes a time when you need to exercise your liberty right under someone's nose.

21:21 But now how do you know that it's not done maliciously or carelessly but done in love? That's something you have to wrestle through before God and no one else can do it for you. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Alright bud?

Love's Response to Stumbling Blocks and Temptation

21:46 Yeah? And then later you have friends and then you know who will drink and they happen to drop in and the table is full of wine or whatever. Are you becoming a stumbling block for that person? It all depends.

22:00 If you happen to know that this person had an alcohol problem and that he really wrestles to this day. Like the woman I think I may have mentioned several years ago. I met a number of years ago at a Bible conference. She was a graduate of a Bible school and then she started dabbling with alcohol and ended up being an alcoholic.

22:18 Then when God delivered

22:21 at the time I spoke to her she said to this day if she so much as smells alcohol it starts all the juices flowing and she just feels like she's on the brink of just going down that path again. So she said so much so when I'm walking down the street if I see the sign of a gin mill up front she said I at that point cross over and walk on the other side. Well if I knew that she were coming to the house say I knew alright put myself in your situation if you knew that she were coming to your house okay or you didn't know and others who didn't have that time she appeared at the door what would you do? Well you'd say to her well sister so and so I didn't know you were coming but now that you've come will you just give us

23:06 a minute we don't want to be an occasion of stumbling to you take the wine bottle off for her sake because you know that it would be the occasion of unnecessary temptation to her the same way if a group of people were sitting around in a home watching a football game on New Year's Day so you have some people over and you're watching one of the bowl games alright into the room comes someone through previous knowledge see we come back to the principle I started with today we get sensitive to each other in these areas you know that this person was a sports addict and I mean was one of these people that you know come Saturday afternoon watch the double headers on channel seven and then right through Sunday and the rest

23:51 and they found that the kick to have it they've had to be a total stainer and they you know this well if they happen to drop in for a minute if you don't love them enough to turn off that television and to fellowship in your things of common love for Christ and the rest and wait till they go to turn it on again then you're not walking in love you see but that's not a double standard it's love responding to the situation that love demands and it's not you don't need to be embarrassed then if the person comes through but if you know ahead of time for instance the thing Bob referred to if you have relatives that you know would simply not understand that they just can't even emotionally and psychologically react the very presence of you know

24:36 of some mild German wine with 7% alcoholic content would just totally unhinge them you know pouring 12 cups of coffee a day in their stomach ruining their insides and their heart that would model them 6% of alcohol one little two ounce glass three times a year and they become unhygienic unhinged I mean that's just their mentality well you know they wouldn't understand so if you know they're coming you don't have it around but suppose they should come and find it well then you're not embarrassed you simply say mom dad cousin auntie uncle whoever you are in most circumstances wouldn't have been found with this but we believe before God this is part of our liberty but I know this would be offensive to you we'll certainly get it out of sight

Biblical Basis for Christian Liberty Regarding Alcohol

25:19 alright but see again you begin to see the principle that love responds to the situation as it's found now we may have some visiting with us who you know you just say what kind of a church have I come into people in here drink wine well there was a time a few years ago when if I had come in here as a stranger I would have run out of here and said this is some liberal church if that's your attitude right now and I speak lovingly to you may I challenge you to do one thing take your concordance and look up the word wine and strong drink those two words are the word in your bible every context and just study them will you do that that's all I ask you to do

26:03 and when you do you'll come away with the conviction that you have no grounds to say that on biblical principles a teetotaling position is the only valid position for the people of God let me give you one passage alright just to challenge it because these passages normally are not even considered if we come out of circles that have this mentality Deuteronomy 14 and again now this is not a polemic that if you absolutely abstain from alcoholic beverages you ought to begin to partake no no no no this is a special word of instruction for any who

26:48 may be visiting among us who are totally unhinged because of the drift of the discussion thus far and I want to be of help to you that's all in Deuteronomy 14 God says in verse 22 thou shalt surely tithe all the increase of thy seed that which cometh forth from the field year by year and thou shalt eat before the Lord that is you will engage in feasting that is religious in nature to eat before the Lord in the place which he shall choose to cause his name to dwell there God says you'll have special religious feasting in the place of the tabernacle and later the temple

27:32 the place where God dwells and he says what will you eat there the tithe of thy grain of thy new wine of thine oil and of the first things of thy flock of thy herd of thy flock that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always in other words this religious eating is to enforce the fear of God you got it now if the way be too long for thee that thou art not able to carry it here you have the tithe of your new wine the tithe of your grain and the bundle is just too long you couldn't carry it from your particular tribal dwelling all the way up to Shiloh or eventually up to Jerusalem where the temple was what are you to do he says this is what you to do

28:14 then thou shall turn it into money verse 25 and bind up the money in thy hand and go to the place which the Lord thy God shall choose and thou shall bestow the money for whatever thy soul desireth for oxen for sheep for wine or for strong drink or for whatever thy soul asketh of thee and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God and thou shalt rejoice in thy household God made the drinking of wine and strong drink a viable option of a religious

28:59 feast that was to strengthen the nation in the fear of God now my friends I didn't put that there nor did Shenley and company God the Holy Ghost put it there that's right there you see it well maybe in the Hebrew there is no no no that's a good translation that's a good translation you see it was only the man under a Nazarite vow that had to take total abstinence as his posture the clear teaching being that was not part of the covenant obligation of the nation of Israel and the parallel in the New Testament is spiritual leaders it says must not be given to much while indicating that not

29:44 only is moderation if that's their choice possible it is in no way inconsistent with the highest standard of godliness which God sets for spiritual leaders now my friends that's the scripture now drunkenness any unnecessary flirtation with drunkenness any unnecessary flirtation with that which leads to drunkenness is condemned in the word of God as is gluttony any unnecessary temptation to gluttony any unnecessary associations that lead to gluttony and we could start naming a number of other sins so I say that particularly and I do it with no tongue in cheek looking out this morning I see visitors among us and not knowing what your background is

30:28 and feeling something of what my reaction would have been a few years ago had I come in cold turkey I do please don't go out and say I went to that Trinity Baptist Church and the first time I was there the adult class they talk like they all sit around swigging wine and all the rest man that please don't do that I'm serious now I'm not fooling I'm dead in earnest don't do that because that would be bearing false witness and it would grieve us it would be interesting if you would take a show of hands right now how many have a position for yourself of absolute teetotaling just raise your hands quickly alright

31:13 I would say off hands it was about three fifths and two fifths but now I think it points out the principle you see and I deliberately didn't look to see whose hands were raised and the rest that was not the issue to identify

31:58 you see but the principle is that it's possible to have individual conscience before God and his matters and to be within the norms of scripture and his elders who see to be involved with the lives of our people we've had to exercise discipline for a number of reasons through the years we've never had occasion to exercise discipline for intemperance with alcoholic beverages yes Paul

Defining 'Weaker Brother' and the Wisdom of Refusal

32:25 well one of the points I tried to emphasize Paul when we began the series and I think it bears

33:00 a lot of importance in terms concerning the whole Christian character in other words we might say of brother A who takes a position of total abstinence may take it on a basis that is not indicative that he doesn't do it because he has scruples of conscience that why is he he simply feels for him it would be an unnecessary posture of temptation well that doesn't constitute him a weaker brother remember the weaker brother is only weak if he has scruples concerning things indifferent when he

33:45 makes a thing that God has put indifferent when he makes it a matter of his ethical and religious conviction that the thing in itself is evil you follow me now now it's perfectly possible that a man may have a religious scruple say about motion picture dinner or about drinking of wine any other things ok he may have it about eating meat his weakness is weakness only in that particular category of his conscience he may be one of the men the strong men described in 1st John he may be a father in Israel in knowledge and in experience and in love whereas the brother who is strong in this area of conscience may be a pigment

34:29 in terms of overall spiritual stature so we must never forget that the terms weak and strong apply only with reference to the conscience in the present state of things indifferent and constantly tell ourselves that and as I think I pointed out two weeks ago many times the very person who has unnecessary or unfounded scruples concerning one or two things here that very disposition of conscience before the Lord is what makes him a giant in other areas because he's careful to walk before God in the integrity of an unblemished conscience whereas so often and that's why this is a dangerous doctrine a man assumes

35:14 that because he has liberty of conscience he ought to have liberty to exercise his liberty when the part of his wisdom might be total abstinence because he's generally weak in his Christian character and he cannot get that close to sparks without being consumed I'll never forget remember that time Michael Kantine said this and it was elegant he was in a situation where this whole matter came up in a practical way and someone was trying to urge him on in a given direction he just smiled and says now remember brother you exercise your liberty by indulging I exercise my liberty by graciously refusing and as I do not impinge upon your liberty don't

35:59 impinge upon mine and I thought that said it all I've never forgotten it never forgotten it I said that's the kind of wisdom that will make a man a good pastor when he understands that was that satisfactory Paul yeah very good yes yeah alright but see there again Paul you know the situation you see for instance

Love's Sensitivity to Context and the Dangers of Rigid Conformity

36:43 some of us who have dear godly parents who prayed for us before we ever came out of the womb who put up with us and man they put up with a lot and they're advanced in years and though there may be no arthritis in the physical joints there is an arthritic mentality with regard to many things some of us just feel it would be an unknown unnecessary source of irritation even to broach the subject whereas if there's a relative who's younger has a whole life ahead of them and you want them not to go through life with unnecessary hangups in their own mentality and others then you may do that very thing but here again you see love responds to the given situation and is sensitive to that situation

37:27 so you see why the scripture comes back again and again and says he that loves fulfills the law you see the other thing as I had the tell someone the other night I said the thing we all want is we want a rigid structured ethical framework in which we don't have to wrestle with maintaining the sensitive spirit of selfless love and constantly going to the scriptures for the principles we feel comfortable when everything is coded for us don't we we feel safe in rigid conformity but what a price we pay for

38:10 we pay a price evangelistically because the moment the church becomes identified with a fixed code of food of drink of external lifestyle clothing entertainment what happens the minute anyone looks them over they say whew I'd be so out of place in that situation you typecast the people of God it's a tragic thing and it's a great hindrance to true evangelism it's a great hindrance to seeing the principle that piety begins with poverty of spirit with the fear of God with these inward perspectives you see it doesn't do justice to individual personality you go to these groups where there's all this rigid external conformity

38:55 and the people for the most part are very plastic there isn't the liberation of true God-given personality and that to me is one of the greatest tragedies that's why I fight this thing tooth and nail I try to fight it at every level you'll find that the people that come out of that type of a situation some of us remember some of you went to a certain Christian school a few miles from here down south where there's tremendous rigidity in the external you could spot one of their students three miles away if you had 2080 vision all of them when one of them took to speak you could tell what school he went to that's a tragedy

39:39 we fought against that we fought with the holy violence you don't men preparing for the work of the ministry people know where you came from in terms of how you go about it that's a tragedy now if after they listen and say look there's a reverence in handling the word of God I got a suspicion where they might have picked that up there's a carefulness well that's fine if we get known for that that's fine but in terms of where your hands go and how they go and how loud your voice is and how soft it is if that begins to be an identifiable mark then we've missed this tremendous concept of our true individuality before God that would be tragic folks in the balcony I'm sorry I haven't been looking at you while I've been talking it's hard to remember you're up

40:24 there during the Sunday school class because we haven't had you up there long forgive me I hope you've been able to hear alright yeah I'm sorry I haven't looked at you that's an insult to have you sitting up there and not have the speaker look at you I'm sorry I just have to reprogram myself I haven't been up here enough since you've started to sit up there in the balcony alright we've got about three four minutes more yes yes yes

Acts 15 and Redemptive History

41:07 Acts 15 yes yeah this is where the concept of redemptive history is so essential what you have here is during this transition period when the Jew you remember when I brought the first study on Christian liberty we said one of the situations that demanded the fleshing out of this doctrine was the inclusion

41:52 the expansion of the church to include the Gentiles and then the inclusion of Jew and Gentile in common congregations the Gentile with his pagan scruples and the Jew with his Jewish and Hebrew scruples and it seems to me and I think this is the position taken by most responsible commentators that at this particular time before you have the final fixed doctrine for the entire length of this epoch of redemptive history till the Lord returns that fixed doctrine being spelled out in the epistles the passages we've studied this was a temporary expedient and that in the light of this point of redemptive history of getting the two groups

42:36 really amalgamated without unnecessary suspicion here was a period when it was wise to have total abstinence in a given area but the very fact that the apostles later on in their epistles negate this as being forever binding we must allow the epistles to take precedence over the historical narrative and that's a fundamental principle of hermeneutics when our Pentecostal friends say when the Holy Ghost came in Acts 2 there was tongues therefore wherever and whenever the Holy Ghost comes until Jesus comes back there ought to be tongues we say wait a minute you're forgetting we're reading a record of what God did in redemptive history the interpretation of that into the abiding standard of the

43:20 church is found in the epistles and we are not to take what God did at a given point and make that the norm for all the age now I think the same thing abides here does that make sense yes Paul alright would you read it for us nice and loud please Paul alright Revelation 2 14 I have a few things against thee because thou hast there some that hold the teaching of Balaam who taught Balak to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel to eat things

44:05 sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication which would indicate this was not an innocent obtaining of a meat bargain in the shambles outside the idol temple it was an eating to idols that involved integration into the worship and lifestyle of idolatry and that's the thing that Paul warns about in 1 Corinthians 10 wherefore free idolatry says you cannot eat at the table of the Lord and the table of demons if you're eating meat in such a way that you're partaking in the religious rite remember the passage I read from Deuteronomy they were to eat before the Lord the eating was not common social eating it was religious eating anyone found eating at Shiloh

44:50 eating at Jerusalem in obedience to that precept was involved in the worship of Jehovah well the same way in the idol temple it wasn't just going in and having a meal that meal had religious significance and so that's the thing that is absolutely forbidden even there in 1 Corinthians 10 apparently here because then as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 10 they ate and drank and rose up to play which is simply a discreet way of saying they rose up to live and commit lewdness as we read in the actual record in the Old Testament God had to spray 3,000 of them in a day now Robert must be very quick then alright yeah verse 14 is not even directed to the child

45:35 he's making an analogy and his point is in verse 5 thus you also it's an analogy he's not bringing to their charge the eating of meat no but he does say you have some there that hold the teaching of Balaam who taught Balak to cast a stung rebuke before the children of Israel to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication that there is a parallel in other words the point of the illustration is to illustrate isn't it yeah I didn't think that they actually held the teaching of Balaam but rather they held the teaching well I think we have to go into a careful exegesis I've been looking at the grammar in the original I wouldn't be prepared to make a pronouncement on it

Prayer for Wisdom and Love

46:20 but I am going to pronounce it when done the time is gone alright shall we pray together our father we thank you for your word we believe with all our hearts that it is the sufficient and the only rule of faith and of practice help us to be enlightened as to its precepts give us grace to walk in the light of it Lord we pray for any who may be visiting amongst this morning who have heard strange things upon their ears all we ask O Lord is that they may sense that we have been sensitive to their state of

47:04 mind and heart and that you would give to them the Berean spirit to search the scriptures to see whether these things are so we pray that you will keep us from the abuse of the doctrine of Christian liberty we know that multitudes have destroyed their souls forever by using their liberty as a cloak for maliciousness Lord keep us from such sin we pray give us an increasing measure of love to one another that we may be sensitive to each other's concerns and perspectives O Lord help us help us we pray for the sake of your dear son

47:49 and for the eternal profit of our souls Amen